Painless Wiring For Classic Cars

Live From The Texas Car Show

Don Armstrong 0:05

Welcome to the Enwheel Time Car Talk Show. Today, coming to you from the Lone Star Street Rod Association State Run Car Show at Hewlins Hewlett Park in Granbury, Texas. Just ahead, got another guest from today's event. Plus, we'll have some of our regular features, and we want to welcome you along with Mike out of this world Mars. We always need more Jeff Zeken over here. This guy right here, this is the man of the hour. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the famous and infamous David Ainsley, and we thank you for all of your assistance and guidance and help. And thank you for the shut up and just stay there. There is that. All right, Mr. Barnes, tell us who our next guest is.

Mike Marrs 0:47

Well, this is Dennis. And I'm not even going to attempt his last name because we're going to be able to do that. Well, let me say his last name.

Don Armstrong 0:53

Dennis, what's your last name? Overholster. Oh, yeah, Overholster. Sure. I can go to the way back. That's an Irish name, isn't it? Uh yeah. Yeah, that's it. So, okay, so what what what do we have the honor of having Dennis on the show with us today?

Meeting Painless Performance’s Founder

Mike Marrs 1:14

Dennis is with Painless Performance Products. This is his coming in here in a moment.

Don Armstrong 1:19

Dave.

Mike Marrs 1:21

And um, you know, painless wiring harnesses and something, all that stuff for years. Well, this is painless performance products.

Don Armstrong 1:27

Do you own the company? I do. Really? You you were the man.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Yeah. I started it 36 years ago.

Don Armstrong 1:34

Well, uh, you've obviously done very well because uh I certainly have I've not used your products, but that's you didn't have to say that, did you? That's it. Well, no, no. I'm a future customer, ladies and gentlemen.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

This is my uh 36 four-panel truck. Yeah, it's got 289,000 miles on it.

Don Armstrong 1:52

So you do you do deliveries, apparently?

SPEAKER_01 1:54

I do. I it's been border to border and coast to coast many times. Wow. I use it when I go to do shows and so forth. So tell everybody what painless does. Painless, we are in the automotive electrical wiring harness business. We do restorations, we do street rod stuff, we do drag racing, we do circle track racing. If it's got four wheels, we got some kind of electrical product for it.

Don Armstrong 2:18

So well, uh I can only imagine how many boards that you have where you're taking the red and it goes here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and around and about. I might I'm not far off, am I? No, you're right on the money. Really? Yep. And you've got like a hundred spools of wire uh uh the where this workstation, and they look at this, okay. Well, this one goes this way. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

So when we've got about 50 different boards. Um we get most of our wire in barrels because it takes we we we use about 35 million feet a year. Oh my god. Whoa. And different gauges and different types and different colors, yep.

Don Armstrong 3:01

Yep. And uh do you have one supplier or multiple suppliers for your wires?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

We have one main supplier and then we have an alternate in case something happens. And back up, yeah.

Don Armstrong 3:13

And where where is your factory, so to speak?

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Our factory is on uh on uh Ludell Street, which is just east of downtown Fort Worth. Seriously? So you're Texas based? Yes. Always always. Are you a Texan? Well, I moved here in 1970 after the military, so that's close enough.

Mike Marrs 3:29

Yeah and after 50 years, you can say you are. Yeah.

Don Armstrong 3:33

So you're you're a Fort Worther? Yes. And uh you uh live uh outside of Fort Worth. And did you choose Fort Worth when you uh moved here or started the business?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Well, I I I I moved here to get away from the cold. I was raised on a corn farm in Indiana, so I wanted to get away from all that and moved here in 1970 and uh lived in northeast uh Fort Worth, Keller area for a long time. Interesting. And then in 96 I built a a two-story log home on on some property out in Weatherford, so that's where I live now. But uh always been here.

Don Armstrong 4:10

That's good. Well, it's a it's an honor and pleasure to meet you. I got fingers in front of my face and everything else. We're just waving at our fans. Yeah, is that what it is? Uh something tells me not. It's the police over. I'm sorry, the fire department is here. Um so I will tell you that uh that uh I I have a little history in uh in Indiana. Yeah, yeah. So the Armstrong family moved from Scotland to Terre Haute back in, well, not my lifetime, but back then. And uh they were corn farmers, and that was my grandfather's business in Wisconsin where he uh ultimately wound up. And uh so uh I'm a Midwesterner too, and I found the right place in Texas. Yep, yeah. So you you get that. So how many you you you say that you got these boards, uh, and for those that don't know, in my world, the board basically had nails on it. And um somehow, some way I guess you went backwards with a wiring harness for that truck or you know, my 1955 Chevy Corvette. You went backwards, you took the wiring harness out of it, said, Oh, okay, so this is the way we're gonna do it. And uh I got a brand new wiring harness.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Yeah, you had to reverse engineer it. And uh we made so what possessed you to do this? I just I don't know. I went through electronics school in the military, and then after I got out, I went uh took two years of DeVry electronics school, and I've just always done it.

Don Armstrong 5:48

So you're an electronics engineer. Well, no, I wouldn't call it that, but I mean, yes. You're electronics, we'll call you that. We'll call you that. Yeah. And and the ultimate wiring guy. Yeah. Have you ever wired a house? Uh well, I did.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

I wired my house that I built. So I had some help though.

Don Armstrong 6:07

Yeah,

How Harnesses Are Built By Hand

Don Armstrong 6:08

I can understand.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Because automotive and and industrial, commercial, residential, two different things. Yeah, totally.

Don Armstrong 6:15

Oh, yeah.

Mike Marrs 6:15

Yeah, yeah.

Don Armstrong 6:16

Um, what is the latest and newest wiring harness that you have on the market today that we can buy?

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Well, see, we we just introduced uh three new El Camino harnesses for the uh 68 through 72.

Don Armstrong 6:34

Um so your main business are those kind of cars that the Warriig harness is shot or it's been butchered so bad or burn up or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yes, yeah, yeah. We don't make anything for new cars. The newest thing we make is for uh C 73 to 80 87, okay. And that's a Chevy truck.

Don Armstrong 6:56

So the next question is still a popular square box. Oh yeah. So the the next question is do you do six volts and and twelve volt systems? Yes. Are they different?

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Somewhat? Somewhat, yeah. But what what we do is if the the circuit requires uh 10 amps to operate it correctly, uh we're gonna and then it and it takes a uh uh 16 gauge wire to do that. We're gonna make it a 14 gauge. We up everything one gauge size.

Don Armstrong 7:29

That way the customer can add a radio less resistance, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

And it could be running on a six-volt system as well.

Don Armstrong 7:39

Do you have guys call you and say, listen, I got a I got a wiring harm harass from you a few years back, but I didn't really think about the power that I need to this new air conditioning system. You get those kind of calls? Yep, all the time. And so how how do you respond to that?

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Yes, most of the time it's uh, well, we just need to add a relay to this particular system, and here's how you activate it, and you activate it with the wire that you were going to use. So now we get direct battery voltage through the air conditioner, and the original wire just like that. Just like that.

Mike Marrs 8:12

What he what he said? Yeah.

Don Armstrong 8:14

And so, and so um you you you do this, you do the the do you do the consulting for free once I got a wiring harness from Painless?

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah, we have full, you know, 800 number. The customers can call in, ask us anything they want. Um we have the best instruction manuals in the business. Most of them are 140 pages or more, full color.

Mike Marrs 8:38

For a wiring harness.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

For a wiring harness. Yeah, wow.

Don Armstrong 8:41

Hell yeah, because you listen, if you want somebody to screw it up, I'm your man. And I gotta have paint by number stuff.

Mike Marrs 8:49

YouTube doesn't cover all that.

Don Armstrong 8:51

And I'm sure that most of the, well, I don't say most, a lot of the guys that you deal with are like me. They've never replaced a wiring harness in their life.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

And that's our best customer. Yeah because they'll read the instructions.

Don Armstrong 9:03

Yeah. Well, how else? I mean, that that is not one of those things, ah, the instructions, I don't need those. That doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Not very well. And uh what it it we find it we find it comical. The guy will call in, he says, I'm an electrical engineer, and I just don't understand this. And I said, I said, Well, you know, did you read the instructions? No. I'm an electrical engineer, I don't need the instructions. This wire goes over there. We just laugh.

Don Armstrong 9:29

Yeah, I can roll your eyes, I can only imagine.

Mike Marrs 9:32

Yeah, but some of them, I mean, I've rebuilt motors, I've painted cars. I hate wiring because I don't understand all the voltage stuff, and I don't, you know, uh I understand color codes, but I just can't grasp it. So something that like you're talking about 144 pages, I'll take it. Yep.

Don Armstrong 9:49

So um let me ask you, Dennis, what do you think of our wiring here today? Yep, it's here. Well, I just had to had to kind of ask that. Thank you for that. Yeah. Because guess what? I don't know what's here either.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

So it must be hooked up, right?

Don Armstrong 10:13

Apparently, well, as far as we know, uh it's

Six Volt Versus Twelve Volt Choices

Don Armstrong 10:16

we're on the air somewhere on the earth. That's all I know. Um dear. I find I find it fascinating because the more I start thinking about it, how I mean, do you actually get a uh 68 El Camino and put it in the shop? Yes. That's what you do, that's how you do it, that's the key to it. And then you Dwire it, tear it all apart, everything, everything, and and then you put it in in the studio, the the work area, and you say, Oh, okay, well, this goes here. You basically deconstruct it to reconstruct it. Correct. Do you use the same colors as the factory? In most cases, yes. And what would change? Why wouldn't you use it like that?

SPEAKER_01 11:02

There's a there's a few, you know, General Motors has got the the most basic color code and they've been using it for years and years and years. And uh so we we try to use all that. There's been a few years, like um, I don't know exactly what years, but uh the the fan wire may be a different color or the the coolant temperature wire may be a different color, depending on the model of the car or whatever. And we still try to do that research and make that change in the in the basic harness.

Don Armstrong 11:34

So uh and if it does change uh from what the factory that you found out that the factory has, then you put that in the instructions. You may find that this particular wire that you now goes from the rear, right rear tail light, I'm just using the example, to the under the dash, has changed colors and you make it uh easy for me to understand. You know, this way, Don, this is the way you do it.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Forges they were used to be the worst. Henry would use anything left over, he didn't care what the color codes were, just make it work. Make it work. And we would we were getting in some Mustangs, you know, the early 60s Mustangs, and taking them out, and and there'd be four different colors of wire just feeding the tail lights. In one circuit. Yeah. And it just how do you do it? How long does it take for for them to do that? The deconstruction, the reverse engineering, how long does it take to create the harness? We'll we'll we'll find a customer that will allow us to have their car for a long period of time, several months. So time we bring it in, take it apart, reverse engineer it, build a sample, see if it'll fit, if it doesn't, modify the sample, do it again when it fits, then we gotta put it on paper. And then we put it in the computer to make a work order. And then we get when we get all that done, we'll run a work order for three, and we'll see if it see if it's see if you can produce it. Produce it. If it works out, we got a change that we get. The last thing we do then is the instruction manual. And the same guy that started it day one is the same guy that's gonna finish it day in day three hundred and sixty-five. Yeah, and that was my that was my question as well.

Mike Marrs 13:20

Yeah, so he's re-engineered it, and and now he's got his prototype, and you're creating three, and he's testing those three, make sure everything works, and then he's gonna put it all on paper.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Yes. Wow, that's so so it takes a year. It takes a year to do the whole process.

Mike Marrs 13:37

Wow. So so what happened? I understand, you know, a 67 Al Camino, so you get one, you what happens if somebody comes and asks you for something that you don't have, but there's not one, uh a 47

Relays Upgrades And Free Tech Help

Mike Marrs 13:48

forward whatever available for you to find.

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Well, we make a lot of universal harnesses as well. So especially now what do you mean by that? It's a it can be used in anything. Okay. We just we just we ask some simple questions. Where do you want to mount the fuse block? Underneath the dash and the trunk, where you know, where right. Then we want to know are you gonna have power windows, power door locks, you know, that kind of stuff. If you're not, then it means that means it's a smaller fuse block, not a big one. Okay, and then uh we'll find out what kind of steering column they're gonna have and so forth. Do we do they need plugs for the steering column or not? And then we make all those different universal ones, and and they and they whatever questions they answer that tells us which one of those are good that see would fit their application.

Mike Marrs 14:33

So you almost custom make a universal one.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Yes. Oh, really? That is my question. So the customer will get it, he'll mount it where he's where he wanted to mount it.

Don Armstrong 14:47

Okay, you gotta hold your gotta hold your story for uh after after our interview here, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

So the uh we make all the wires extra long. Uh the first one I made was for my 39th Chevrolet that I had years and years ago. So we made it 16 feet long for the taillight wires. Well, come to find out, that wasn't long enough. So we went 22 feet long. Oh my gosh. And the all the headlight wires and so forth are all 16 feet long. So the customer's gonna get it, they're gonna get a lot more wire than they need, but that's good.

Mike Marrs 15:21

It's easier to shorten it than it is to lengthen it.

Don Armstrong 15:24

Now, do you put the connectors on the ends?

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Only in certain circumstances. If they're gonna have uh a general motor keys colour, let's say key collar, then we'll we'll put all the plugs on that so they can just plug in the collar. Done.

Mike Marrs 15:45

But like you say, how long do you need to get your tail lights? Where are the tail lights mounting? Which you know, do you get it?

SPEAKER_01 15:51

We don't know what car is going to go in, how big it is.

Don Armstrong 15:53

It might be uh it might be that. It might be that, or it could be that little bitty short hot rod over there, the yellow one. And you yeah, who's to say? Yeah. Because that I guarantee you does not have the original wiring RSA. No.

Mike Marrs 16:11

Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Do you live here in Granbury? I live in Weatford. Weatherford, okay. North of here, about 30 miles.

Mike Marrs 16:17

Okay.

Reverse Engineering A Full Harness

SPEAKER_01 16:18

So are you between here and Fort Worth? Well, Fort Worth is I I live north of here. Fort Worth from where I live is east. I got you. Okay.

Mike Marrs 16:26

So yeah, I got you.

Don Armstrong 16:27

I've heard of Weatherford, I don't think I've ever been there.

Mike Marrs 16:29

I'm trying to remember why I've heard of that. There's something there.

Don Armstrong 16:32

It's famous, and that's painless wiring.

Mike Marrs 16:34

There you go. There you go. That's it. I knew that.

Don Armstrong 16:36

Yeah. Yeah, it's right on Interstate 20. Do you do wiring harnesses all over the world? We ship them all over the world, yes. Amazing, isn't it? Yeah, we used to make it. And you started this business? Yes, sir. I made myself. How did you how did you market it?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

In in the in the early days, uh now what do you call early days for you? Well, I wired my first car in 1964. Okay. At a 333 Winnicou. All right. I did it myself. But when I got out of the military, uh everybody wanted uh, can you come over and help me fix my wires and so forth like this? So that's what I would do. And then uh I was working at a Ford tractor dealer as a mechanic and later on as a service manager. So I had a friend come to me one day. He says, I know a guy that has a wiring harness company, and he's looking for somebody to help him produce one for the hot rod industry. He says, Can you do that? I said, Yes, sir. So in the evenings after I get off work from the tractor dinner, I'd go and uh do some design work and build and so forth. Introduced it, uh got finished in uh late 89, introduced at the Fort Rod and Gusky Car Show in 1990 in a 37 Ford cabulet that didn't have any interior or anything in it. So it made it all the wires. You can see all the wires. So we did that. I made some, took them to Pate Swap Meet, sold them all the first day, and made a whole bunch more, and took them to uh Columbus, Ohio to the Street Rod National, sold them all the first day. In other words, you need to make a nice ding ding ding. But I had an advantage because for eleven years I I was a volunteer for the National Street Ride Association. So I knew all the vendors there, I knew all the shit, I had all the connections, and it made the world of difference.

Don Armstrong 18:38

And that that gives a different meaning to connections from your world to the living world.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Electrical connections. I don't know if you're familiar with that. Absolutely. I I give uh I give them 20 years of my life, and uh a lot more connections, and things happen. So everything everything's congratulations.

Don Armstrong 19:02

Yeah, what a great story to tell. Absolutely. I mean, yeah, I mean, this is a uh story for a book. Guys would buy it.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I've I've I've I've sold three I've I've written three books already.

Don Armstrong 19:12

Well, have you? Well, there you go. Well, I'm a day late and a dollar short, just like the rest of my life, but whatever.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

I gotta tell you one more story. Please do how we got our name.

Don Armstrong 19:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Oh, yeah. We we incorporated as perfect performance products. And we were that way for for a while when I was building my first harnesses. And uh so I had a friend, his name was Tex Smith. He he was the editor for Hot Rod for a while, and he was also had his own publication called Hot Rod Mechanics. And uh he called me one day and he said, I hear you you got in the harness business. What are you thinking? You know, giving me a hard time, but he says, I'm I'm building a dollar a pound roadster, and that's what he had. His little roadster, and he didn't want he didn't want it to cost any more than a weight. So he says, Would you send me a harness and I'll put an ad in my upcoming issue of Hot Robert Mechanics? I said, Yeah, so I did, and he did. And the phone blew up. And then then in October of 1990, the his latest edition came out, and sure enough, there's a full page ad, and the top of it said painless wiring. And it's been painless wiring.

Mike Marrs 20:32

And he was just using it as a as an adjective for your product.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

But now how cool. That's how sorry.

Don Armstrong 20:38

That is that is uh are you is he still alive? Are you still in touch with him?

SPEAKER_01 20:42

No, tax passed away a few years back.

Don Armstrong 20:43

Yeah, wow,

Universal Harnesses That Still Fit

Don Armstrong 20:45

that's a great story.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yeah, so lots of lots of cool things about that. And you talked about marketing. You know, he's marketed himself all the contacts, the network. One more quick, another quick story. Okay. I'm I'm coming home from an event in this in Knoxville, Tennessee. It was the National Street Router Association South. And so uh when I go back to Texas, I always look to see what the weather is in Memphis or Birmingham, and so I know which way I'm gonna go. So it's storming in Memphis. So I'm gonna take the southern route down to Birmingham and go across. And uh so I get down there and I get on the loop in Birmingham and I'm headed west on 20. And all of a sudden I've got a C B radio, and of course that was back in the 90s, everybody had one, but uh uh it lights up and and I can see these two trucks coming at me. And uh one guy says, Wow, look at that yellow truck over there, that's pretty cool. And uh the other guy comes on and says, Oh, yeah, that's that painless guy. He drives that all over the country. So I just reached up, thanks guys. There you go. So just stuff like that. Yeah, yeah.

Don Armstrong 21:56

And us. When we saw painless wire, and we're going, Wow, that's really Cool. We don't know if that's the guy. And it's you.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Mr. Painless. Somebody had to do it, right? Absolutely.

Don Armstrong 22:07

Well, I mean, I be you I can only imagine you go places and you're famous for your wiring harnesses. I mean, I think you are. I've heard of painless wiring since you went into business. I didn't know it any different. Absolutely. Yeah. And I certainly didn't know any of the backstory. I didn't know any of that stuff. I have seen videos of a wiring harness board where you loop it through like a rug. Well, it's it was basically a four by eight sheet of plywood with nails in it. That's it. Is that you still doing it that way? Yep. Oh my god, they're still doing it that way.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

We have little clips instead of the nails, but yeah.

Mike Marrs 22:46

But still, you still gotta lay it out by hand.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Everyone's laid out. General Motors do the same thing. Lockheed does the same thing. Bell Helicopter does the same. They're all made that way. Do you think we could use one for us?

Don Armstrong 22:59

I think we could we could probably use some help.

Mike Marrs 23:02

It may take a while, but we could do two boards. It may take two years for that project.

Don Armstrong 23:07

Dennis Overholzer. Did I pronounce that right?

Mike Marrs 23:10

You did good.

Don Armstrong 23:11

Thank you. Thank you very much for that. That's that uh that's that Midwestern thing coming out, I think. There you go. Yeah. Because I know that I've known somewhere in my life an overholzer.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

There's a lot of them in the Midwest.

Don Armstrong 23:22

Yeah, yeah. Well, Indiana, Terreho, and all yeah, I got you. It's a pleasure, it's an honor to have you here and talk to you today. Painless wiring. And I guess all we got to do is Google it, painless wiring, and it's gonna come to you. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And uh, and I I assume that you get a lot of your business now off the internet.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

A lot, yes. Yeah, yeah, off our website and so forth. Yeah, one last one. How many folks work for you? Right now we're we're at about fifty. We we had been up to eighty some at one time. We were making some harnessing for General Motors.

Mike Marrs 23:54

But uh, regular supplier, part of their supply line?

Don Armstrong 23:58

Yeah. I I guess that you probably get phone calls every once in a while like that, don't you? Guys that you know companies that uh say, hey, you know, uh I'm I'm building a uh a little car, then I'm gonna have fifty of them. Can you do the wiring hard for us?

SPEAKER_01 24:16

We we used to do some of that, but we and we call that job shop work, right? We the problem with it is it takes all the time of my engineers to do that little job. It takes them off of what we needed to get your main core business.

Don Armstrong 24:31

And after all these years, you figured that out.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

So nothing with nothing with the electric car companies, Tesla's or anything, nothing like that. We we only make it for ourselves. Perfect. Very good.

Don Armstrong 24:41

Uh honor, pleasure. Thank you so much for stopping by and a great conversation. Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Appreciate all all the all the support.

Don Armstrong 24:49

Oh, you got it. All right, coming up, Jeff has the cruise in and

Marketing Wins And The Painless Name

Don Armstrong 24:52

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Don Armstrong 26:44

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