Pontiac People On The Move

Welcome And What’s Ahead

Mike Marrs 0:00

Welcome back to In Wheel Time. Coming up, we're going to talk with Carl Wick with the American Pontiac Association. We're going to also take a look at our feature automotive history, a look ahead. Then we're going to try and cover the race cart and we're going to look at the weekend ahead events and see what's going on. Hey Carl. How are you doing today? I'm doing well on yourself. Doing well, doing well. I noticed you got the big Pontiac on the wall back there and on the shirt and everything.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

I grew up around Pontiac. I gotta stay representing them.

Mike Marrs 0:32

I understand. I understand. Uh I was telling you earlier that the first time I ran into your organization several years ago, I was covering the show that you do down at Galvison on Pier 21. And a couple of times I even took my wife down there because it was so much fun right there. And so I kind of thought we'd talk about the club first, and then let's go talk about some of the events you do, like that event on Pier 21.

American Pontiac Association Origins

unknown 0:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Yeah, I mean, as long as the club, um, you know, it's a nonprofit organization. We've been operating in the Houston area since 1982. Um, you know, over the past couple of years, the club has seen a really big resurgence and growth, which has led to some really strong turnouts at the Strand, uh, which is the show that you're referring to in Galveston. So, you know, and just recently over the past couple of years, we've actually uh been fortunate enough to be able to inherit the show that uh Michael Woody has been running at uh San Leon and Top Water.

Mike Marrs 1:23

So how long has the the show been, I mean, your your organization been around?

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Uh it was established in 1982.

Mike Marrs 1:30

I was thinking it was back in the 70s, but uh that's that's close enough, yeah. So how how many members do you have?

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Uh it's a tick over 40 right now.

Mike Marrs 1:39

So Pontiacs, I mean, there's not that many Pontiacs out there, so that's very understandable. But I know that from what I've seen uh over the years, you've got a very active club membership.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Yes, I'd I'd like to believe we do. We try to do uh you know a lot of different things that are encouraging all makes and models to come out to our events, and then as well as basically we try to do a lot of internal things as well to basically encourage member involvement. So it's very important for us as well as facilitating, giving back to the community and then being really active group, you know, trying to take care of members is very important to the public.

Mike Marrs 2:13

As far as membership goes, so basically Pontiac. If you've got a Pontiac of some sort, year, make model, or are there any restrictions?

SPEAKER_01 2:23

So it's kind of funny you mentioned that. So it is a Pontiac organization, but we're not limited to just Pontiacs. We find that that's most of where our member base is, but we do have actually an officer that actually does have a Corvette. So he had a trade game. Oh yeah, yeah, you know, kept on. But it's actually not a requirement to own a Pontiac to be part of the APA. So we just find that you know we just tend to attract Pontiac people.

Mike Marrs 2:47

Well, I understand, and and that makes sense, but like I say, there's not a lot of them around. I know uh right after COVID, we used to do a uh car club section, talk to different car clubs, how they are, kind of help promote the car club idea, and so many of them disappeared, and some of them did try and make the transition to where okay, we're not going to be restricted to this one brand or these certain years, uh, but so many of them disappeared, and it's really great that y'all are hanging in there and doing so well.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

No, and and I mean you make you make a great point. I mean, the APA was actually kind of facing a similar, uh, kind of a similar crossroads a few years back, you know, and there was kind of talks as far as you know, opening it up and you know, really, you know, changing the name of the club and kind of doing some different things. But really, what we decided to do is we just said, hey, we need to change kind of operationally what we're doing because there are Pontiacs out there, right? And it's a pretty loyal group of owners that are dedicated to that brand. So we started saying, hey, let's do cruises, you know, let's do some other events, let's get our name out there more. And that has proved wildly successful as far as you know the amount of membership that we've gotten. I mean, from 2021, we were sitting right at around 20 members. So I mean, right now we're tick over 40. So I mean, you're talking, you know, over 100% increase in a couple of years.

Mike Marrs 3:58

Yeah, that's great. That's great.

Galveston Pier 21 Show Vibe

Mike Marrs 4:00

So let's let's talk about the the Galveston show. Like I say, that was the first time I ran into your organization. I was doing freelance work, and uh, I don't remember the gentleman's name that uh ran into down there. He was doing DJing and all kinds of things. There was a lot of stuff going on. So kind of let's let's talk about that show, where it is, because it's really unique environment.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah, so that yeah, that show is right on uh Pier 21, so right in front of the Langry's Langry Seafood. Um it's it's a really great venue.

Mike Marrs 4:29

I mean, we've been very fortunate to to be hosting shows there for you know several decades, and you know, we've so uh just to clarify, when you say Pier 21, I mean if you go down to Galveston there on the strand, Pier 21 here, Pier 21 there.

SPEAKER_01 4:44

So yes, we are physically on Pier 21 on the waterfront, right in front of our Harbor House Hotel.

Mike Marrs 4:51

Yeah, yeah, and I think that's part of what's great. I I took my wife to the at the time there was a Greek restaurant right there on that corner, and you could literally sit out on their deck, if you will, and watch all the cars and everybody going in to look at the cars. It was a great place to go and watch people and watch the cars and whatever was going up and down the bay. People that are looking forward that want to look into that show, where when what time of year is that? In April or something?

SPEAKER_01 5:15

It's March. It's it's it's a weekend, it's uh it's always a weekend after Thanksgiving. Or I'm sorry, not Thanksgiving, it's spring break.

unknown 5:22

Okay.

Mike Marrs 5:22

Well, March is good, it's a little bit cooler. Maybe that's why I remember it so well. The weather was so nice instead of this Houston summer heat. And uh if they want to find out more information about that particular show, where could they go to start looking at it, start planning their spring activities?

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yeah, so I would say visit our website, it's americanponyac.org. So that will basically give you all the links as far as you know the club's social media. Um, and then we're gonna have a dedicated, you know, after we finish up with Woodies, we're gonna have a dedicated uh webpage just for Sean Galveston.

Mike Marrs 5:52

Right. When you get to get to that point, you'll have it up there. Okay. So

Taking Over Woody’s Waterfront Show

Mike Marrs 5:56

let's talk about Woody's. How did y'all get involved with Woody's? Uh you know, he'd been working on it a couple of years. Y'all. Is that a fair question?

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Yeah, uh very fair question. So so Woody's actually a member of the APA. He's he's been a member for a few years.

Mike Marrs 6:14

Uh got a nice safari. Or he had.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

He had one, yeah. Um now he's got a now he's got an 04 GTO, so again, still pawning out. Um, but no, I mean he's been a member of the club for a few years, and you know, we've we've always known he's done the show. He but as he's kind of, you know, he's just kind of as he's gotten a little a little bit older, he just realizes I don't necessarily want to organize a show. He still wants to be involved with it, he's very forward-facing, still still likes to be there. But it's like operationally, you know, he just doesn't necessarily uh want to continue doing it. And so he kind of, you know, past couple of years, he's slowly been bringing the APA in. Last year we actually uh ran the show for him. Um and then this year we're we're taking over it as well.

Mike Marrs 6:53

So well, I mean, as you well know, since you your group does shows, it's really tough on a one-man band to go out there and do something like that, even if he's got some buddies that are helping a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Yeah, I mean we we come in, we come in with a lot stronger of a team. I mean, you know, we're right now volunteer-wise, this coming show uh next week, we're gonna have 28 members out there.

Mike Marrs 7:12

So Woody's show is coming up uh next week and the 26th, and then it starts at what time? What are the hours of it?

SPEAKER_01 7:22

So the official the official start time of the show is gonna be nine. Uh so registration is gonna be nine to twelve. Um, and then awards are scheduled for two o'clock. But we we typically open the gates a little bit earlier, at least, or at least that's our goal. You know, we recognize, you know, having hosted a number of car shows at the car show folks, you know, it's an early crowd. So we've got members there before 7 a.m. So we're you know, we're hustling trying to get everything set up, you know, again, with the intention of opening up the gates earlier than nine.

Mike Marrs 7:48

Okay, so let's talk about where the show is or where the setup is, because that's uh one thing that makes it so unique.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

Yeah, so it's uh the show is insanely on, it's a Topwater Grill, which is a fabulous restaurant. If if anyone has never been to there, I highly encourage them to go out. Um, not only is the food great, but the location and the venue is absolutely beautiful. So it's right on the waterfront. There's you know a nice little kind of you know boat deck area, they've got outdoor seating, it's a great spot.

Mike Marrs 8:15

Because it's boat, it's all the way through San Leon, all the way down to the bay itself, it's on the water. Uh, and I think that's one of the things that makes it kind of unique because you can see the guys come in, they've been out fishing all morning, and you see them pull in there with their big boats and the bay boats, and uh it just all adds to the atmosphere.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Oh, I agree. Yeah, I mean it's it's a beautiful venue.

Mike Marrs 8:35

If I remember right, so you come in, there's a big parking lot for the restaurant, and you're all they're gonna have to use that, obviously, and then you're gonna park cars down towards the water in there down there by the Palapas thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Yeah, the yeah, the Palapala. Yeah, so what what we did last year. So last year was actually probably one of the strongest turnouts that show has had. We had a tick over 210 cars, is what we did. So we filled the entire peninsula, ran cars down the center of it, and then filled cars along the side along the other waterfront basically, and then started filling up that parking lot. So we're hoping for another.

Mike Marrs 9:09

Pretty good job to get all those cars in there because that's not that big of an area. I mean, there's plenty of room for the restaurant for people to go down there and relax and stuff, but that's a lot of cars.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Oh, it is, yeah. I mean, but like I said, we've got a team of 28 strong, and we've got a dedicated parking team that we fully entrust to handle that job, and they're well seasoned at it. So, you know, they do a great job with it.

Mike Marrs 9:29

Well, and I think the turnout that's a testament to your organization and how good a show they put on. Woody built a pretty good name for it, and now it's just taking it to the next level, it sounds like. So I think it's wonderful that you're doing that and keeping him involved.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Oh, absolutely. You know, we we fully intend to keep Woody involved. I mean, it's you know, it's it's he was the architect of that show, and like I said, you know, with the APA, we're very fortunate to be able to inherit the name of that show and continue on with that legacy.

Mike Marrs 9:55

Yeah, we got to do a few remotes out there, and it was always wonderful. Is it

Registration Details And Year Cutoff

Mike Marrs 9:59

too late for somebody to register for the event? No.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

If they go to the website americapontiac.org, um, you can pre-register there. Uh, we're gonna cut registration, pre-registration off on Thursday at midnight. And then, of course, you can register the day of the show with cash. So drifted off. Yeah, so so pre-registration, you can do pre-registration online through AmericanPontiac Pontiac.org. Uh, that's gonna end the Thursday before the show, which is uh 24th, 24th or the 23rd at midnight. Um, and then after that, you can still register uh the day of the event with cash.

Mike Marrs 10:33

Oh, so you don't so do you have a max? I mean, are you gonna cap it out, sold out type thing?

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Um, I don't think we'll hit a max. I mean, I think realistically, kind of we had space last year at a little over 200 cars. So, I mean, unless we double that, I I think we'll be we'll be okay. I mean, it'd be a great problem to have, but it's like, you know, yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

Mike Marrs 10:52

What a problem to have to have cars lined up all the way downtown saying they own waiting to get in and things. So is there a registration fee?

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Uh yes, uh yes, the registration is uh thirty dollars.

Mike Marrs 11:04

Okay, is it open?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

Uh any it's the only it's open all makes and models. The only caveat to that is is it's limited to cars uh 2009 and older. So that was something that was pretty important to Woody as far as keeping like a more of like a vintage car. And so we you know, we we're a Pontiac club, so 2009 was last year of Pontiac's, so that's the cutoff.

Mike Marrs 11:26

Hey, that works. A lot of clubs have done that. Uh you know, like some of them are using now a rolling 25 years, it's so every year it kind of moves up a year to kind of keep uh more cars coming in and make more people available to join in and have some fun. 2009 is a nice time to pre-2009, it works well. Yeah, I think so. It gets his GTO in anyway. So uh, and of course, the restaurants there. Uh, is there any other food trucks or anything like that gonna be there as part of the event?

SPEAKER_01 11:58

I mean, we we you know, with uh with Topwater, we ask that you support that business. I mean, they're gracious, they're they're gracious enough to allow us to be out there. Um, you know, and last year they actually provided um they were selling breakfast talk as a day of the event. They got a coffee bar, they've really dedicated themselves to being able to support that show.

Mike Marrs 12:15

Yeah, it's uh and it's a good restaurant. I mean, it really is. A lot of people go just to go eat there, so it's it's well worth waiting on because 200 cars, you may have a little bit of wait.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Sounds great. Staff extra, though. They they especially after last year, they're kind of anticipating the same kind of uh same kind of turnout.

Mike Marrs 12:33

Very good, very good. Well, hopefully the weather's gonna be good. Uh, like I say, unfortunately, I'm not gonna make it out there this Saturday, but I'm hoping uh there's always the next one. Thank you, Carl, for joining us today and sharing the information about the American Pontiac Association, as well as all the events that y'all have got going on. It sounds like a great event. And if anybody is looking to find out more information about your organization or potentially wants to join, they should go to AmericanPontiac.org. Yes, sir, that's correct. Ah, I knew that. I didn't even have to write it down. All right, Carl. Thank you again. We're gonna be right back after we run a quick 30-second spot, and we'll be here with the next part of our show, and we're gonna be talking about the automotive history, and we're gonna have the race cart and hopefully some events. Stay with us and we'll be right back. Cars, trucks, SUVs, motorsports, road trips, and the people who make the automotive world interesting. In wheel time is changing and we're expanding. We're bringing you more automotive stories, more interviews, more destinations, and more of what you may have missed. From Texas to the automotive world beyond, in wheel time is your place for automotive talk without the politics or the nonsense. Join us for the next generation of In Wheel Time Cars, trucks, and the people who love them.

Automotive History Week Ahead

Mike Marrs 13:51

Time now for automotive history: a look at the week ahead. Some events that we saw coming up that we thought were real interesting, and we thought you might be interested as well. So we're gonna start with September the 20th, 1970. Formula One Racing came to Quebec for a 90-lap race. Now, this was the Canadian Grand Prix, and Ferrari dominated the finish. Jackie X took the victory and his teammate finished second. Chris Amon placed third for the March Ford. And the reason this race is really significant, the season was really overshadowed by the death of a championship leader early in the year at Monza. X victory demonstrated Ferrari's growing strength during the closing races of the 1970 Formula One season. September the 21st, 1959. Chrysler produced the very first Plymouth Valiant at its Highland Park facility. Developed as Chrysler's answer to the growing demand for compact cars, the Valiant was introduced for the 1960 model year. It entered a market that was increasingly influenced by smaller cars such as the Volkswagen Beetle and other emerging American brand compacts. Now the Valiant eventually became a long-running Chrysler product remaining in production through 1976, and it really helped establish the company's presence in America's expanding compact car market. September the 22nd, 1893, Frank and Charles Drew put their gasoline-powered automobile onto the streets of Springfield, Massachusetts. Now their first attempt, it only lasted a few hundred feet before transmission problems stopped the car. And apparently people still have transmission problems. September the 23rd, 1940. This is really uh this started a whole new world as far as automobiles go. Given only 49 days by the U.S. Army to design and build a lightweight reconnaissance vehicle, Bantam delivered its prototype to Camp Hollibird on schedule. The Bantam BRC became the foundation of the vehicle later known worldwide as Jeep. And it doesn't look a whole lot different. Although Willis Overland eventually received the major production contract, the first prototype was designed and built by American Bantam. September 26, 1957. The Vespa 400 microcar made its public debut in Monaco. It was built by ACMA, which is a French company that was associated with Vespa scooters. This little tiny two-seat automobile was designed for economical transportation in the crowded European cities, which traditionally have smaller streets, just because that's the way they built them 10,000 years ago. Its rear-mounted two-cylinder, two-stroke engine delivered impressive fuel economy. Reportedly, it got around 48 miles per gallon. Now there were more than 12,000 of these sold during the very first year. But sales declined as larger and more practical vehicles quickly became increasingly popular. And that's a few of the things that we found in automotive history this week that we thought you might find interesting. And hopefully you'll check into it a little bit further. Cars, trucks, SUVs, motorsports, road trips, and the people who make the automotive world interesting. In wheel time is changing and we're expanding. We're bringing you more automotive stories, more interviews, more destinations, and more of what you may have missed. From Texas to the automotive world beyond, in wheel time is your place for automotive talk without the politics or the nonsense. Join us for the next generation of In Wheel Time Cars, trucks, and the people who love them.

Texas Race Card Dirt And Asphalt

Mike Marrs 17:39

Time now for the race card. The race card is sponsored by the Texas Muscle Car Club Challenge. You can find them on their Facebook page to find out more information about how you can get involved in drag racing with this great organization that actually has a series. They go to different places, different tracks, points, accumulations for the drivers, for the club. It's a great way to get involved with your friends and make new friends drag racing. So we're going to start up with some events. Uh Kindedale Speedway Park. And this is September the 19th. That's going on this weekend. And uh also as well as next weekend, the 24th to the 26th. Now, Kendale Speedway Park is a quarter mile semi-banked dirt oval. Now, this is just southeast of Fort Worth. It has the kind of racing lineup that represents traditional Texas short track racing. They're going to have Southern Sport Mods, Ice IMCA stock cars, factory stocks, sport compacts, modified sprint cars, and they've got a lot of other local classes. Now the current schedule shows that the racing September the 19th, followed by the summit showdown, practice September the 24th, and racing September the 25th and 26th. So if you're looking for some uh dirt racing up in the northern part of Texas, there you go. Cotton Bowl Speedway and Page, September the 19th. Again, race going on this weekend. Cotton Bowl Speedway is another genuine Texas dirt oval. Now, this is their season finale, and it includes the IMCA Southern Sport Mods, IMCA stock cars, factory stocks, junior limiteds, and sport compacts. So this is a great reminder that grassroots racing isn't necessarily about million-dollar race teams. These are classes that are built around relatively accessible race cars and local competent competitors. So these are the local guys. You want to go out and see some good local racing, go up here to this page track and finish up their season today. And it's really not over for the year. Now they're going to have October fast. Octoberfast. The schedule for October 9th through 10th. That's when the Southern Texas dirt tracks and the IMCA classes show up. So that's another one to put on your calendar if you're looking for some exciting oval dirt racing. Houston Motor Sports Park has both drag racing and an oval program. Now, this is an asphalt oval short track. The current schedule lists the full throttle promotion 750 Super Bowl on September the 19th today, followed by Shootout Saturday on September the 26th. Now, HMP's oval program is important because it gives you a short, paid short track racing in Texas. There's not many of these left. Lots of jerk tracks are surviving, but the asphalt ovals are not necessarily uh hanging in there real well. So you want to go out and support your local track. There's a good place to go catch some asphalt racing. We're going to go up to 105 Speedway in Cleveland. Now, this is up off of Highway 59, north of Houston. And it runs, its schedule runs all the way out into November, including the 31st Annual Renegade Texas Grand, November the 12th and the 14th. So there's a lot of action going on up at the Highway 105 Speedway. It's a great track. Keep it in mind whenever you're going to look for some local racing. One more would be the Texas Motor Speedways Dirk Track in Fort Worth. Now, I've seen this track. I was surprised to find it when I was up at the Texas Motor Speedway at a different event. So it's not the big track is the NASCAR facility. All right, let's see here. If you're not looking for a place to go racing on the weekend or racing action, let's go look at the weekend event calendar and see what else is going around.

Weekend Event Calendar Highlights

Mike Marrs 21:19

September the 26th, cruise in Silsby. Now this is Saturday, the 26th, starts at 8 a.m. Now it takes over the Kirby Memorial Football Stadium and it brings in traditional car show and cruise in crowds together, kind of a combine event. And uh current listings show it as the $30 vehicle registration. Spectators are free. Then on uh Saturday, September the 26th, as well, if you're looking for something a little different over in Beaumont, the 409 Base Meet. Base Meet. Now, this is performance car audio. It hosts the 409 Base Meet with demonstrations, a top 10 SP. PL competition and vehicles that have their sound. You can have your sound system metered to see just what kind of decibel ratings you've got coming out of it. If you want to make sure that you can vibrate the car next to you when you pull up to the red light, this is how you can get yours tested and see where you want to go. And have a fun meet with other people that are doing the same thing. Now, here's one I really like. Uh been there, but it's Woody's Waterfront Car Show, San Leon, September the 26th, 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. Now, this is a great event. It's got a great locale. The colors are on the waterfront at the Topwater Grill. It's a great restaurant if you ever get a chance to go there. The American Pontiac Association is handling the eighth annual show. They're going to have hot rods, music, food, and they're going to have 10 different judged categories. So they're going to have more than 60 awards for this show. Now, there is a limit. You've got to be a pre-2009 vehicle. 2009 and older. So you've got to stay in that range before uh so you're not going to come out there and find any 2012 Corvettes or 2025 Corvettes or anything like that. So this is just going to be the older vehicles, and it's put on by the American Pontiac Association, who has several different events that go on throughout the year. Go to their website and you can find out more about all of these events. Woody's Waterfront Car Show is a great one to go to. Great place to go. Also, just to make things a little different, hot import hot import nights, Tokyo X edition in Houston. Now, this is at NR NRG. I can't talk. This is at NRG Center. Hot Import Nights joins Tokyo X for a weekend built around imports, JDMs, exotics, custom builds, and uh broader Japanese automotive culture. Now this is on uh September the 26th and 27th that you can go and check that out. Nifty 50s. Now this is a nice event that's up here on September the 26th, 4 to 9 p.m. It's in the cool of the evening. It's a Saturday evening cruise in. This is uh one of Randy Shannon's events, Nifty 50s, and it's in spring. If you're looking for something that's more of a road trip, Kilgore Cruise Nights in Kilgore, Texas. Now this is 5 to 8 p.m. Uh in historic downtown Kilgore. All vehicles old and nude are welcome to this 1950s themed cruise night. Granbury, Texas, 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. at the Pecan Plantation Airport. It's called Fly In and Car Show in Granbury, Airplanes and Automobiles. Something different to go check out. And this is for September the 26th. Twin Sisters Dance Hall Car Cruise In. Now that's a mouthful in Blanco, Texas. Of course, that's uh real close to Twin Sisters. If you're an automobile guy, you know what that means. Now, this is kind of unusual because it combines a car and tractor cruise in with a cook-off vendors, live music, and the historic dance hall that's there, as well as easy access to Twin Sisters. Just saying. A few other things that might mention would be Katie Cars and Coffee, September the 26th, 8 to 11 a.m. Fifth annual Holy Covenant UMC car show in Katie, September the 26th, 9 a.m. to 12:30 p.m. September 26th, boys' second annual car show in Houston. So that's some of the things that are coming up that if you're looking for something besides the race car you want to get into for the weekend, some of the things on the event calendar. All right, that wraps up the event calendar. And uh we're gonna take a quick 60-second break and then we'll wrap up the show. Stay with us for more than 14 years. In wheel time has been talking about the cars, the trucks, the people, and the stories that make the automotive world interesting. Now we're taking in wheel time to the next level. New vehicles, automotive news, car reviews, motorsports, industry leaders, and interesting people. We're gonna take you beyond the driveway and the dealerships with stories from the people who build, race, restore, and actually live the automotive lifestyle. And we're hitting the road with driving destinations worth discovering. First across Texas and eventually wherever the road can take us. Plus, we're gonna have some automotive history, features, interviews, and stories that you may have missed. It's still in wheel time to discuss. There's a lot more watch us, listen to us, follow us. It's in wheel time. Cars, trucks, and the people who

Where To Watch And Listen

Mike Marrs 26:36

love them. So I want to thank you for joining us today on In Wheel Time. Want to be sure and join us next Saturday at 9 a.m. Central Time. And we're going to be streaming on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Twitch, and inwheeltime.com. But of course, if life gets in the way, we understand things happen. You can find In Wheel Time on your favorite podcast provider. Apple, Spotify, uh, SiriusXM podcast, iHeartRadio Podcast. There's just a whole bunch of them. But if we're not on your favorite podcast provider, let us know and we'll see if we can't remedy that situation. I'm Michael Mars. Thanks for listening, and we will see you next Saturday on In Wheel Time.