Fuel Prices, EV Reality, And What Wins Car Of The Year

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Mike Marrs 0:06

From the Texas Gulf Coast, welcome to In Wheel Time for Cars, Places, and People. Coming up on this episode, we're going to be talking with Jack Niered, the award-winning automotive journalist and author and host of the nationally syndicated America on the Road Radio program. I'm Michael Mars. Thanks for joining us. And let's get right on over to Jack. Morning, Jack.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Michael, so great to see you. It's always great to see you, and uh love to see you today.

California Fuel Prices And Taxes

Mike Marrs 0:39

It's good to see you, sir. Uh and I'm gonna ask, probably just for a little quick, how is the world on the West Coast kind of established where you're at?

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Ah, crazy. Crazy. Uh crazy in so many ways. It just gets crazier and crazier. Um we pay a big weather tax out here. We have terrific weather, but we we really pay for it uh in so many ways. And uh, we're finding that out. One of the ways, of course, is fuel prices, but that's just one of them taxes and a bunch of other things. But uh sure. What are your fuel prices running these days? Uh, it's around six dollars a gallon, something like that. I think sometimes it's dipping under six uh into the fives. Um, you know, I was just in Bentonville, Arkansas recently, and I think the fuel prices there were like $350 or something like that. And uh I it probably seems high to them, but uh uh what we go through. And yet, fuel prices are fuel is still a really small percentage of most people's budget. I think it it's kind of overblown because we see it on signs everywhere and we can see that the prices have rocketed up. I you know, I don't know what the price of eggs or milk or a bunch of other things are. I sure know that the price of cars has gone way, way up, right? Yes.

Mike Marrs 1:56

Yeah, so particularly if we used cars. But I think just uh to level set, I think I paid $4.58 for a gallon the other day in in filling up a truck. Uh, but I do have relatives in northern Arkansas and they're complaining about getting close to $4 to a gallon. So it's relative, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting that you're paying that in Houston, uh, because I would think uh it would be uh there would be a bigger spread between what you're paying and what we're paying in California. Uh we have a lot of oil here, and there's now controversy about getting the oil out of the ground here and drilling more wells in California, not just offshore, but uh here on dry land where we've been drilling for oil for uh 130 years or something like that. Right. So that that just shows you uh what's happening here.

Mike Marrs 2:47

Well, I think just from my perspective down here in the Golden Triangle part of Texas, where we uh at one time we produced like 24% of the gasoline for the country. And I think it's still up there pretty close to that. And uh, but the tanks are full and they're running 24-7 processing everything they can get their hands on. So uh of course it takes a little bit of money to get it shipped out there to you if you're coming getting anything from Texas.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah. I actually live very close to a refinery, uh, probably within uh two or three miles of a refinery that dates back, I think, into the 1930s, maybe 1920s or something like that. Oil comes in by ship here, and I think a lot of the oil coming here is from the Middle East these days, which isn't obviously the greatest thing in the world, uh, and one of the many reasons that fuel prices are so high here. I I'm not certain of that, but uh that's what I've been told.

Mike Marrs 3:39

We think uh I think it was either yesterday or today, we're getting our first tanker from Venezuela coming into one of the local ports for for processing. So we're gonna see how that that kind of oil works into our system. But anyway, yeah, that should be good. Yeah, that should be fine. Yeah. So so have you seen anything? I've got one specific question I want to get to, but I want to, before we get the get off into it, what have you driven lately that you're interested in?

What Jack Drove At NACTOY

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Well, I just came back from uh the North American Car of the Year testing that we do in Ann Arbor, Michigan each year. And uh during that testing, it's a three-day-long uh testing regimen. Um, I got to drive, geez, uh probably close to two dozen uh contenders in truck utility and uh car of the year, and really interesting stuff, some stuff that I had not driven before. Uh the Rivian R2, for example, that uh the smaller electric from Rivian, uh the Audi A6, which I was really impressed with. What a great sedan that is. It's just so terrific. And um, the interior of that thing and uh the screens, the integration of infotainment and uh other technology in that car is really stupendous. And uh similarly, uh it's uh equally good in the Audi um um Q Q Q9 and uh the SQ9. I have uh the alpha numerics kind of trip me up sometimes.

Mike Marrs 5:14

Yeah, they because it's so mixed up, everybody's going to something, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

But uh, you know, just so many really good vehicles uh of all kinds of of all types. Uh you know, I got a chance to drive the Ram TRX, and you know, the return of that. Uh you know, it's it's so great to see a V8 engine in a RAM pickup truck, uh, you know, uh practically uh tossing confetti and and putting on a party hat for that. Uh, you know, it's just nice stuff. Balloons coming out the exhaust and everything. Yeah, yeah.

How NACTOY Works And Stays Ethical

Mike Marrs 5:44

So the NACTOY, you mentioned NACTOY, it's the North American Car and Truck of the Year Award. And just for our listeners that may not have heard of that, just a quick summary of that.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Yeah. I mean, this was founded in 1993 by a bunch of independent journalists. Uh, I think you know, Michael, that I was uh editor of Motor Trend back in the day and ran the Motor Trend Car of the Year, Import Car of the Year and Truck of the Year Awards way back. Uh, this was in the in the 80s and into the 90s. Um, and uh in 18 uh in 1993, a group of uh something like 20 uh independent journalists from various uh publications, a lot of newspaper folks, uh some independents, some freelancers, decided that it would be wise to kind of emulate what they do in Europe. The European Car of the Year has been uh kind of a landmark thing for decades, and they decided to emulate that with a bunch of independent journalists choosing car of the year and truck of the year. Uh so they put together a jury, uh, not beholden to any kind of advertising, not beholden to any kind of uh there's no money involved really. There's a license fee that uh the car companies have to pay that kind of helps support the organization. Yeah, keep it going. Right. But other than that, and uh all of us uh there are now 50 jurors or something like that. I think there's a few open slots, but typically 50 jurors again from all uh disciplines within car reviewing, um from broadcast journalism, from print journalism, uh, from the web, and uh even a few social media folks these days.

Mike Marrs 7:22

And you're the journalist that you're speaking of, that's by invitation at this point.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Yes, yes.

Mike Marrs 7:28

Not just anybody.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Right. It's a pretty rigorous process. And uh one of the things that we're most stringent about is uh ethics, you know, making certain that all of those people on the jury have no ties and are not taking money from um individual car companies. Um that obviously wouldn't it would not uh fly very well. Uh and the the goal is to do a very independent look at um what is the best new car, what is the best new truck, and what is the best new utility to the market each year. And I think we do a pretty good job of that. You know, there's 50 different procedures, I imagine, because there's 50 jurors, but I think we we generally come to the right conclusion, or most of the time come to conclusions that you know I agree with.

Mike Marrs 8:16

And there are some basic guidelines. I think something about it's got to be relatively new, a year or two old, or some things like that.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

It has to be, you know, the cars have to be all new or a new version of a previous model, an all-new version of a previous model. Um, same with the uh utilities on the truck side, because there aren't as many completely new trucks, new pickup trucks, um, we're a little less stringent about that. So if they have a significant uh change, like for this year, I think the uh GMC and Silverado have new powertrains. Uh the HEMI is back in the the RAM, as I mentioned.

Mike Marrs 8:56

So um it's not gonna be just a different trend, different set of badges on it.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

So it has to be something substantial, Michael. Yeah.

Mike Marrs 9:04

Yeah, yeah. That's that's good. That's good. Uh and this is typically, again, for people that don't know, this is uh something that's presented the finals, I think, at the Detroit Auto Show in January.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Right. Yes, we will uh announce the three semifinalists in each category, so nine vehicles, uh, at the Los Angeles Auto Show. That happens right before Thanksgiving. Uh, and then at the Detroit Auto Show, which is in mid-January, we'll announce the car, truck, and utility of the year, the North American car truck and utility of the year.

Mike Marrs 9:36

I've been there a couple of times when y'all did that, and and it's it's really a nice presentation because they set all the cars up in the middle of the hall, and people can get up on the second level and look down and stairs. I mean, it's it's uh it's a nice presentation.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

It's a big deal. It really is a big deal, and uh, I a lot of car companies uh will then use that in their advertising. They'll uh they'll note that they are the car of the year or the utility of the year. And I think it helps people. I think it helps people because uh, for instance, in the SUV class this year, I think there's something like 12 contenders, right? So there's 12 all-new vehicles, and you know, there's a lot of great technology there, a lot of just interesting vehicles. So to figure that out takes a lot of doing. I'm not certain that I know exactly who I'm going to vote for even yet. Um I still have some weeks to figure that out. Um, but driving them back to back as we do in Ann Arbor really helps a lot because you can see the the differences, the kind of the subtle differences sometimes between the cars. And and you just see how they work, right? I mean, how how living with them day to day would be. Uh I think that's important.

Mike Marrs 10:48

Slides,

Touchscreens, Buttons, And Distraction

Mike Marrs 10:49

things like that.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

For instance, I uh one thing that uh Rivian has done is you know, they uh are heavily reliant on the touch screen to do anything, you know, uh, and even to adjust the uh exterior mirrors or do some seat adjustment, those kinds of things. And I think that once you learn it, I suppose that's fine, but it can be kind of difficult. And if you have to wade through several screens to find what you want to do, um I think uh maybe I'm a Luddite, but I kind of like buttons and knobs.

Mike Marrs 11:23

That uh well I'm with you because I've been in a couple of them where you had to go like two screens deep.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah.

Mike Marrs 11:28

One in particular that irritated me because I had to go two screens deep to adjust the volume on the radio.

unknown 11:34

Right.

Mike Marrs 11:35

I'm sitting in a red light and I want to turn it down so I can talk, turn it up. And and it's like, you know, everybody talks about distracted driving, but they're building it. That's a different conversation, though.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, the two knob radios we had in the in the 50s and 60s kind of work pretty well, right? Uh on uh on off volume and then uh tuning with the other knob, and there you go.

Mike Marrs 11:57

But uh then once you got to the push buttons, you could reach over there and slide over. Okay, my favorite channels on push button three.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Three, boom, boom, boom.

Mike Marrs 12:04

You don't even have to look.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

So right, right.

Mike Marrs 12:07

Speaking

EV Demand Shifts And Charging Friction

Mike Marrs 12:08

of technology, let's get to something here before we run out of time that I was curious. I've been reading a lot about EVs and what the manufacturers are doing, changing their basically changing their response to the EVs or the EV market. Uh what you see any big changes coming there?

SPEAKER_01 12:31

Well, I think what we're seeing, and uh what we saw in North American Car of the Year, for example, is a uh introductions of a lot of EVs that I'm not sure would have been introduced had the manufacturers known the environment in which they are being introduced now, right? I mean, uh uh. Yeah. Because of the relaxation of uh fuel economy requirements, and you know, there's a different mindset going on right now about cars. Thus, we have the V8 engine back in the RAM pickup truck, for example. Um there are vehicles that come to market. Uh one that immediately comes to mind is the Toyota Highlander, now all electric, uh, and several other electrics out there that are good as electric vehicles, but I the market is not crying out for new electric vehicles right now. Uh there's little doubt about that. Um, and so we'll have to see what happens. I think once the um manufacturers have committed to the design uh development and then procuring the the parts and all of that stuff, and you know, contracting with suppliers, etc., to to build these things. Sometimes building plants uh to build all electric vehicles, they have to kind of go through with it.

Mike Marrs 13:51

Right. You've gone far. You can't you can't stop in the middle of a building a plant, or you may can redesign it to something I right. You know, we've taught before that to me the hybrid is going to be the way to go. But still, like you say, once you've got two years of development in, or maybe even a whole new plant built for EVs, you've got to build a few of them before you can say this is a mistake, we can't sell these. Uh, because I agree, I think the market is adjusting more to customer demand, not regulation.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yeah, yeah. And uh, you know, uh having an EV in in some ways is still pretty hard. You know, there are things about it that are challenging. Uh, they're great uh day-to-day if you can charge at home and then you're just you know tootling around uh your local area. If you try to grow go cross-country in them, though, it's still a bit of a challenge, and maybe more than a bit of a challenge. I was out in um the desert about 120 miles away from where I am, and we were recharging a uh Toyota B Z. And next to us were folks in a Honda Prologue that were driving from Los Angeles to Phoenix, and they were recharging the prologue, probably taking 40 minutes or so. They had two babies in the backseat, and they were just sitting there, and they were gonna be sitting there for about 40 minutes. And um it just seemed like, and they were gonna stop at least one more and maybe two more times before they got to Phoenix, and that just seems like a struggle to me. And uh, you know, they kind of admitted it was a struggle for them. It was a bit of a struggle for us just to have to recharge a vehicle uh to drive out to the desert and back in a day. So uh there may be good reasons, or people like uh the drivability of EV. I love the way they drive. Um certainly smooth and powerful and all that. But um, there's some hoops you have to jump through um to own an EV still.

Mike Marrs 15:53

Yeah, there's been a lot of cars come through Texas in the press fleets in particular that that I felt like, okay, this is pretty good if I live in New York, maybe Dallas or downtown Houston or something. But where I'm at, where it's 200 miles to Houston, it's 300 miles to Austin, it's it becomes kind of uh to me, it's impractical in this part of the world.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Yeah. I think anybody in a rural area is is gonna have difficulties with it unless it's a a second or third car that they just use locally while they have an another vehicle, a gasoline vehicle that can be refueled in in minutes uh to use for those cross-country drives or longer drives.

Mike Marrs 16:35

Yeah, we got a I got an interview coming up. He he came home with the flu, but he's been on a two-week trip in his EV up towards Colorado and stuff, and and he's documented it pretty well what all he had to do to make that trip viable. So I'm really looking forward to talking to uh Buzz whenever he gets over the flu of all of them.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yeah, yeah, I hope he gets better.

Jack’s Substack And Radio Show

Mike Marrs 16:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Jack, it's been great. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. We're kind of running here out of time. And uh, you got anything like on your books? Have you got a new book out or anything?

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Well, I I have a substack now that kind of supplements my book. My one of my books behind me, uh, for those who are looking on video is only one thing stays the same. I write crime novels, and now I'm writing some more true crime, some short true crime on my substack, which is called Jack R. N. Red, Cars, Crime, and Curveballs. So I write about the three things I know about, which is cars and which is crime. I don't commit them, but I know a lot about them, apparently. And and curveballs, because I was a baseball guy and uh know a little bit about that, did that for a long time. So uh that's something you might look at is uh my sub stack.

Mike Marrs 17:42

I will do that. I will do that. Uh absolutely. I wrote it down so I wouldn't forget it. And you are also have another radio program.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Uh yeah, America on the road. We uh we air we air weekly. Uh look for us as you should look for in wheel time every week and uh listen up and uh we think we can share some pretty interesting stuff.

Mike Marrs 18:06

Uh I've listened to it and I think it's it's it's good, Jack. Again, thank you, sir, for taking the time to talk to us today. You uh take care. We hope you get over all your travels that you're doing here.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah, it's my pleasure. I think I can well, actually, I'm going to Texas in about uh 10 days, so that's my next my next trip.

Mike Marrs 18:23

So come on down. The weather's good here. We've almost got California weather, but not enough to raise our taxes up to that level.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

There you go. Okay. Great to talk to you, Michael. Thank you.

Mike Marrs 18:32

Thank you. Jack Kneered joining us today. We're going to take a quick break and then we'll be right back.

Heroes And Hot Rods Event Promo

SPEAKER_00 18:44

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Mike Marrs 19:13

Cars,

The Next Generation Of In Wheel Time

Mike Marrs 19:14

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