How Chevy Built A Rear-Engine Rebel

Welcome And What’s Ahead

Mike Marrs 0:00

From the Texas Gulf Coast, welcome to End Wheel Time. Coming up in this segment, we're going to be talking with Riley. That is Greg Corvair Riley, author and auto enthusiast. Then we're going to have a little time for automotive history, a look ahead, and we'll have some upcoming events, and then we'll wrap up this segment with the race car. Thanks for joining us. I'm Michael Mars, and let's get to Greg.

Why Corvair Interest Returns

Mike Marrs 0:24

Riley, there you are. Good morning.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

How are you doing, Mike? So far, so good. How are you? I'm doing good. You you invited me on here to talk about my favorite subject. So if you're gonna wind me up, this could this could go on for a while.

Mike Marrs 0:37

I understand. The Corvairs seemed to be in from what I've seen, they seem to be making a resurgence in people's interest and stuff. And it may just be because uh I noticed them, had some back past history with one of them or two. So I thought maybe you with you uh because you've written two books, you know a whole lot about this vehicle and a lot about the history. And I thought maybe we could kind of go through it real quick, but start back from the background because there's a lot of misconceptions about what happened to the Corvair. So let's let's start. Chevrolet rolls out the Corvair and and take us through a few things that are pertinent to history. I got a few pictures I'm gonna show that might you might can use to enhance your your history lesson here.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Okay, perfect. Well, let me

Ed Cole’s Bet Against Volkswagen

SPEAKER_00 1:21

start by addressing what you said. There is a renewed interest in the Corvair um among uh younger people, and a lot of that has to do with uh Jay Leno and Tim Allen. Those were the two guys that kind of brought the Corvair back into the public consciousness a few years ago, and then prices and popularity started to take off from there. Um the Corvair was actually designed in the 1950s. Um, the gentleman that headed the project was a legendary engineer named Ed Cole, who later became president of General Motors. He was involved in almost every significant post-war uh 20th century uh General Motors engineering project from the hydromatic transmission, the high compression Cadillac V8 of 1949, small block Chevrolet engine, on and on. And his pet project was the Corvair. I think it was in 1957 they conceived of the idea for the Corvair. And what they were concerned about is Volkswagen was beginning to make huge inroads uh in the small car segment. And the big three manufacturers really didn't have anything to compete with that. So Ed Cole decided that he was going to try to outdo the Volkswagen in every parameter. Uh, it needed to be a six-passenger automobile, it needed to have a flat floor, it had to be available with an automatic transmission, on and on. These were all things that the Volkswagen didn't offer. The original concept was for an economy car, kind of like what you have on the screen there. That's actually a 64 Monza sedan. The early cars were much plainer than that, with dog dish hubcaps, very, very little trim. And they sold okay, but in mid-year 1960, uh that's when an earthquake happened. General Motors or Chevrolet introduced the Corvair Monza with bucket seats, full wheel covers, wide white wall tires, fancy trim. And man, the sales took off. And uh they kind of realized at that point that their original concept for the Corvair probably wasn't uh what the market was asking for. So they really leaned into the sporty car thing. And by 1962-3-4, the car magazines were full of articles about Corvairs and performance and things like that. And in fact, in 1962, General Motors sold almost 300,000 Corvairs. I think the actual number was either 292 or 296,000. People say the Corvair was a market failure. They sold 1.7 million over the 10 years the car was produced. GM and all the rest of these guys today would kill to have anything that sold uh and any anywhere near those kind of numbers.

Mike Marrs 3:50

Yeah, the Corvette wasn't even holding up to those kind of numbers during that time frame.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Well, not not at all. Not at all.

Nader, Swing Axles, And The Mustang

SPEAKER_00 3:57

And uh Ralph Nader was a young lawyer. He worked for Senator Rubikov or Ribbakoff or something like that, and he was trying to make a name for himself, and he hit upon the idea of writing a book about automotive safety. I think it was published in late 1965. Ironically, the Corvair had been redesigned and a new model was on the market by the time the book came out. But the book came out, and the book was really not an indictment of the Corvair, it was an indictment of automotive safety in general in the United States. Only one chapter in the book was about the Corvair. And in fact, he saved his biggest criticism for the 1955 Buick. He said the car was heavy, handled poorly, and had really terrible brakes. But his um his uh criticism of the Corvair had to do with the swing axle rear suspension. That's an improved 65 model, and it has a completely redesigned suspension. But the early models, which is 60 through 64, have a swing axle rear suspension, similar to a Volkswagen, an early Porsche, or even Mercedes that were produced at the time. And uh the book came out in uh 1965, but something else happened in 1964 that was far more significant to the Corvair's demise than anything Ralph Nader or General Motors did. Ford introduced a brand new product called the Ford Mustang in 1964, 64 and a half, and it absolutely took off.

Mike Marrs 5:19

So like hot cakes, I mean, like a million cars or something the first year.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

My brother wanted one and he got a Corvair instead. He never got over it, okay. But the the thing is, is it offered the same sporty car formula that the Corvair did, but in a much more familiar layout. It was front engine, rear-wheel drive, used a conventional either six-cylinder V8 powertrain. It was nothing revolutionary, but in many ways the market preferred that. The Corvair was uh was really an engineering marvel. Uh, they had a six-cylinder air-cooled engine um four or five years before Porsche did. Uh, people say that uh Chevrolet copied Porsche, but that's absolutely not the truth. The benchmark was the Volkswagen, but the Corvair, uh, as I said before, outdid the Volkswagen in every measurable parameter. And um, and as I said, it was a six-cylinder engine before, years before uh Porsche did one. And Corvair came out with a turbocharged engine in 1962 in the spider that everybody talks about. And uh Porsche didn't have a turbocharged six-cylinder engine until 1974. So I get all these online comments of people saying that General Motors copied Porsche. No, that's not really the case. I wouldn't say that Porsche copied General Motors either, but I would say that uh there were similarities and GM Chevrolet did it first.

Mike Marrs 6:40

Obviously, there's a lot of uh European influences in this car, like you're talking about the rear engine and things, because that's the competition they were after. They thought that's what people were wanting at the time because people were buying them. So uh it kind of surprised me about the Mustang stepping in being so conventional to the American car makers that and and it really took off and basically killed the Corvair in nine in 1960.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Motor Trend proclaimed it the year of the compact car. Uh Chevrolet came out with the Corvair, Studebaker had the Lark, uh, Plymouth had, I don't know if they called it the Valiant yet, but they had the Valiant, and Ford um had the um uh the Falcon. And imagine right. Interesting, it's the interesting trivia. I just got to tell you this before I forget. The Falcon was introduced with 100 horsepower in 1961. So General Motors apparently didn't change a doggone thing about the engine, but they advertised that the Corvair had 102 horsepower. Okay, so they they had to outdo outdo four.

Mike Marrs 7:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

I don't want to minimize the impact of Nader's book, and some of his criticisms were fair. A swing axle car does not handle like a conventional live axle car. And one of the biggest problems that Corvair suffered from was the belted tires of the day. Uh, by the time still belted radios came out in the 1970s, the the handling things that we were talking about with the Corvair uh were largely corrected just with better tires. What would happen was was that at high speed, uh you would turn and the rear wheels would tend to tuck under. Okay, and those belted tires would roll over and it would create a situation where the car would come around backwards like this, and in extreme situations it could actually flip. That was not uh actually a very common occurrence. But after the book came out, the news media, being the news media, they went out and found every single instance they could ever find of a Corvair being involved in an accident and said, See, there you go. Yeah, gotta have headlines. So, but now here's the thing is you you remember a book called Unsafe at Any Speed, right? Right, right, but you probably don't remember this book called Assassination of the Corvair that was produced in 1969, that essentially rebutted absolutely everything that Nader had to say in excruciating detail. Uh, one of the most famous court cases involved a Corvair uh that was uh I don't know if it was wrecked in Texas, but it wound up at Texas AM University in the engineering department. And it was one of the most famous lawsuits, and it was also used in congressional hearings. And our club Corvair Houston eventually acquired that car. When they were all done with it in the 1970s, we bought it and parted it out. But it's probably the most famous Corvair of all kind, of all time. And Congress being Congress launched all kinds of congressional hearings, right? Which wrapped up in 1971, two years after the last Corvair. After the last Corvair, yeah, that's that's your government at work. And so essentially what they said was they didn't say the Corvair was a safe automobile, but they said it was no less safe, no less safe than any of its contemporaries in the 1960s. You also have to remember that the early model Corvair design was really a 1950s design, not even a 1960s design. And so uh by 1965, when the new body style came out, is what you're showing there, uh sales took another good bump in 65. But starting in 66, they really started to go off a cliff. The interesting thing is General Motors had decided to discontinue the Corvair, I think it was after the 1966 model year. Uh, they had the Corvette, the Camaro in development, which was going to come out in 1967. So GM no longer saw a need for the car, but they continued to produce it for three more model years, mainly because they didn't want to look guilty in the marketplace. And we had a peak of 300,000 cars approximately in 1962 and 5,000 produced in 1969 for a total of 1.8 or 1.9 million corvirs produced. Um, I I've owned these cars uh for almost 50 years. Next year will be 50 years since I acquired my first Corvair in high school. And since that time, I have owned countless corvirs. And if I tell people how many, they think I'm exaggerating, but I am not exaggerating. I've owned over 200 of these cars.

Mike Marrs 10:53

My family, you get a lot of them and you restore them or at least get them running and things for for other people.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

I see a lot of that. Yeah, I do mostly what I do today is I build engines. Okay, I'm kind of getting older and working on my back under a car and all that isn't that appealing to me, but I build several Corvair engines a year. And uh there's a lot of these cars out there uh for sale, particularly the early models, the 60 to 64s, they're a little less popular and they were produced in far greater numbers. So there's a lot of those cars. If you go to Facebook Marketplace or Hemings or whatever, the 65 to 69 cars are less common, but they're also more popular. People also say, they say, well, the Corvair uh copied the Camaro. No, sir. The Corvair came out first, the Camaro copied the Corvair. And if you look at a late model Corvair Dash, it has many similarities to a first generation Camaro Dash. So, you know, General Motors uh uh, you know, they continue their styling from vehicle to vehicle, and the Corvair was partially styled by a very famous GM designer by the name of Bill Mitchell, who was responsible for some of their uh most significant designs uh, you know, from the after World War II until he retired in the 1970s.

Mike Marrs 12:09

I got I got another one here before we get too far and run out of time. That uh I had a summer one, I got to spend a summer with a vehicle like this, a red and white one. And uh I always didn't appreciate it at 16. I wish I had it now.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Well,

Wagons, Frunks, And Gas Heaters

SPEAKER_00 12:26

what you have on the screen there is a 61 Lakewood station wagon. And actually, one of the other bad pieces of press that happened since you have that up is there was a comedian comedian named Ernie Kovacs, and he was killed in an early model Corvair station wagon. And of course, that made headlines all across the country. But what they failed to tell you was that he was drunk as a skunk at a time at the time. Okay, that didn't make the headlines, but the Corvair causing his death was the headline. Corvair causes death, the prominent comedian, and all that stuff. Those are really cool cars. An interesting thing about the station wagons is the greenhouse area on that those cars is actually several inches taller than a regular Corvair. A regular Corvair windshield and side glass will not fit a Corvair station wagon because the top is several several inches taller. Why they did that, I don't know. Maybe to get it in, get in and out easier, make loading uh cargo in the back or something. Yeah, but I just thought that was interesting because that's a pretty expensive engineering exercise to change that basic thing about a particular model, right?

Mike Marrs 13:26

And I also wanted to throw up here this one, you know, a frunk, you know, the the Corvair had the first frunk everybody's talking about.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

And that particular one is a 1960 Corvair 700 model. You can tell by the chrome belt line trim. That was a little bit fancier. They had the 500 to 700 and later came out with the Monza, but you can see this car has full-wheel covers. It has the chrome belt line trim and some other things. That's a pretty fancy 60 Corvair that you have there. Also, the 60 Corvairs were unique and they had gasoline-powered heaters. They literally had a heater that operated off the fuel tank and burned gasoline. And amazingly, they're they're actually uh pretty reliable and they don't give a lot of problems, and they don't cause fires or anything like that. But you, you know, when you say gasoline heater, my my uh my rear end kind of puckers up a little bit.

Mike Marrs 14:15

I got one more quick engine shot here.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Okay, that is an early model spider, probably a 64. I can tell by some details. In my driveway right now, I have a 1965 Corsa Coupe. My Corsa Coupe was built in Los Angeles, sold new in Los Angeles. It's a black plate California car, and it's also an original factory 180 horse turbo car, which is even more rare and unusual than the spider was.

Mike Marrs 14:42

Yeah, that's and you got to understand, this is what would be traditionally a trunk. If you were looking at a Mustang or something, this would be in the trunk area because it had the original frunk up front that everybody talks about now on the EVs.

The Truth About Thrown Belts

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Well, let me point out the belt to you, too. I don't know if you can see the belt, it makes those 90-degree turns and all that stuff. And that was another, I mean, the Corvair had a couple of criticisms, and some of them were valid and some of them weren't.

Mike Marrs 15:05

But the belt Oh, yeah, you can see the belt right in the middle. You can see it over here on the right.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

It goes to the pulley at the bottom of the crankshaft and comes up around the fan. So it makes two 90-degree turns. So um, Corvair's had a reputation for throwing fan belts, it was largely undeserved. But let me kind of explain to you why that was and what happened, okay? The original fan belt design actually works very well. If you use the correct belt and it's tensioned properly, it's really pretty trouble-free. But what happened was is that when the belts wore and people went down to the parks house and they would buy one the same length, but it wasn't designed the same way. The belt wasn't narrow to fit down in the grooves and it wasn't wrapped all the way around to cause it to track properly. So, what would happen is that people would put the wrong belt on there that wouldn't sit down in the grooves, they would over-tension it. The belts actually are less likely to stay on over tight than over loose. And then you add that up, uh combine that with uh some oil leaks that the cars were known for, which by the way, today we can correct. And so then you would have belt problems. Okay, if you run a core of air without a belt, your cooling system is inoperable, and then it creates all kinds of other problems. So you created a cascade of problems, mostly just out of ignorance from owners and repair shops.

Mike Marrs 16:16

Well, that's a lot of us do or do it yourself McCandys have a tendency to do that kind of thing. Listen, Greg, we're running long. Riley, Riley. I'm gonna call you Riley. I like Riley.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

I like Riley too. That my dad was Riley, so there you go.

Where To Learn And Buy Parts

Mike Marrs 16:29

It's really interesting. If people want to know more about Corvairs, I know you've got a couple of books out, and uh you've got a website, or at least Facebook is where I see most of your stuff. So, so where can people find out, find you and find more information?

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Well, let's talk about me and where they can find more information on the cars. You can find me at Riley, R-I-L-E-Y, Plays Cars. Three words Riley Plays Cars with no spaces. You can find me on Facebook or Instagram, or you can find my website at RileyPlayscars.com. Okay, I'm pretty active on social media. I post a video almost every day of something to do with Corvairs. And if you want to know more about the core of the cars, you can join the Corvair Society of America, which you can find at Corvair.org. Or the Bible, the leading parts suppliers, the guy, the guy that has done more to keep Corvairs alive than anybody else else is Cal Clark of Clark's Corvair Parts. And you can find that at Corvair.com. And I hope you'll follow me on social media uh and you'll get bored with Corvair stuff because I'm posting all the time.

Mike Marrs 17:30

Yeah, but you've got some other things going on that we're gonna talk to you about at another time.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yes, I do a lot of things besides Corvairs.

Mike Marrs 17:37

I understand. Riley, we're gonna go with that. Greg Riley, thank you very much for joining us today. And it's RileyPlayswithCars.com.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Or it's Riley Plays Cars, no with Riley PlaysCars.

Mike Marrs 17:48

RileyPlayscars.com. I'll have to uh change my notes here. So well, thank you, sir. We appreciate it. And we are going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in about 30 seconds. Stay with us for our next segment. We're going to be talking about the race card and we've got some automotive events coming up all on this episode of In Wheel Time. Cars, trucks, SUVs, motorsports, road trips, and the people who make the automotive world interesting. In wheel time is changing and we're expanding. We're bringing you more automotive stories, more interviews, more destinations, and more of what you may have missed. From Texas to the automotive world beyond, in wheel time is your place for automotive talk without the politics or the nonsense. Join us for the next generation of In Wheel Time. Cars, trucks, and the people who love them. We're

Texas Road Trips With Cabooses

Mike Marrs 18:41

back. I want to thank you again for joining us today on In Wheel Time. Time now to see where the road can take us this week. Sometimes in Texas, the stays can actually become a part of the adventure. What if your weekend getaway came with its own railroad history? Now at the Woodrow House, bed and breakfast in Lubbock, you can spend the night in a fully restored Santa Fe caboose. The caboose has a queen bed, private bath, kitchenette, and even a view of the BB's pool and hot tub. Breakfast is served in the main house, though. So for train buffs, families with anyone who likes unusual lodging, this turns a West Texas road trip into an overnight adventure. About an hour west of Houston is a 500-acre working ranch where the accommodations are almost as interesting as a drive to get there. This is the Blisswood Bed and Breakfast Ranch in Cat Spring. I recently found out where Cat Spring was. I have a friend that lives there now. So Blisswood offers historic farmhouses, cabins, and even glamping accommodations. One particular Texas choice is the dog trot house. Sounds interesting? Okay. It's built around the traditional open breezeway that helped pioneer homes stay cool. It has two suites, fireplaces, a private pool, and room for larger groups. You aren't just visiting the country, you get to spend the weekend in it. The Slanton Harvey House is a 1912 former Santa Fe Railroad restaurant that's been restored as a historic inn, a bed and breakfast, and an event center along with a railroad museum in Slanton, Texas. Of course, where else? It is one of the only six surviving Fred Harvey eating house locations in Texas. The five guest rooms are actually inside the historic building, and guests can sit in the common areas and watch trains working the active BNSF rail yard right outside. Here's another opportunity to sleep in a rail car. But this time the caboose is part of a ranch getaway. We're talking about the Flores Ranch Bell Plain Caboose in the Texas Hill Country. Now, Flores Ranch offers the Bell Plain Caboose a one-bedroom, one bath retreat beside a lake. Now guests can combine the overnight stay with fishing, boating, grilling, or simply setting around a fire. The property also offers a tree house and cabin. So you can make this weekend road trip where the destination is almost as interesting as the road you take to get there. Speaking of dog trot houses, the hill country is just full of places to stay, but this one gives you something more than a room with a view. The dog trot guest suites set on a 135-acre ranch near Comfort with a hilltop porch offering panoramic views in every direction. There's also a half mile walking trail, fire pits, and some spectacular nighttime stargazing. After a day driving the back roads around Fredericksburg in Comfort, this is the kind of place where you can just park the car and simply enjoy Texas. How about A railroad caboose that isn't setting beside a ranch or a BB. But how about right in the middle of Wimberley, Texas? The caboose on the square is a restored Rock Island caboose with a queen bed. It's got a cantonette and even a Clawfoot tub. Step outside and you're immediately in the middle of Wimberley Square. That's where you're going to find all the restaurants and shops that are nearby. It's an unusual combination: railroad history, hill country scenery, and a weekend walkable destination, all without having to get back in the car. Etheridge Farms is located in Coont. This is outside of Beaumont, is right in the big thicket. And it offers private cabins rather than a traditional BB room. Now the standout is the historic cabin on Blueberry Hill, a converted early 1900s barn in a secluded setting. Other cabins have things like outdoor showers and stays, include a homemade Texas country breakfast. The property also has a lot of trails, a pond, and an orchard. So that's part of this Texas road trip. Sometimes the destination isn't just where you're going, it's part of where you're going to spend the night. And so you could go from a railroad caboose to a 130-year-old dog trot house, a working ranch, or a tree house. Texas has some pretty unusual places to put your overnight bags. So the next time you're wondering where the road can take you, maybe you ought to think about where the road can take you to stay overnight.

Auto News On Taxes And Rates

Mike Marrs 23:33

So now we're going to look at some automotive news. Some of these things are pretty good. The IRS finalizes auto loan deduction rate. One of the things is the IRS finalizes auto loan deduction rules. So your FI products are in, negative equity stays out. So if you're upside down in your car, this isn't going to help you out very much. The key takeaways on this is the IRS finalized the auto loan deduction rules confirming interest on accessories and many FI products. That's uh including gap coverage, which is important these days because the price of cars are really rocketed. And uh they qualify for the new tax break. Negative equity was excluded at from the deduction, with the IRS holding that rolled over trade-in debt does not qualify as debt incurred for a newly purchased vehicle. So it's only about the new vehicle and new purchase. The final rules, which replace the IRS temporary ones for the 2026 tax season, come as consumers struggle with rising auto loans and interest expenses. In other words, it all goes up. And that's partially because the Fed raises the rates for the first time since 2023. And this is going to hit the dealers. It's going to affect the amount of interest they're paying, inflation, all this good stuff. The key takeaways on this are the Federal Reserve raises the benchmark interest rate a quarter point, September the 16th. Now, this is the first increase since 2023, bringing the target range from 3.75 to 4%. It doesn't sound like a lot, but that quarter point is what the dealers are paying, the manufacturers are paying. Everybody's got to borrow money to build these cars. That causes the interest rate goes up, their price goes up, their cost, so it transfers on to us, the consumer. Now the Fed officials predicted another quarter point increase by year end, a prospect that could increase dealers' interest rate challenges even more. Now, let's see, new vehicle borrowers finance an average of $44,658 in August. That's up 4.6%. But it's got the seasonal promotions later in the year could offset some of this affordability pressure. That just makes it even better going into the end-of-year selling season or buying season, depending on which side of the picture you're in. The other side of this is Honda is looking to add 25 dealerships in the Sunbelt. Now, the thing here is American Honda plans to add as many as 25 dealerships in the fast-growing Sunbelt markets, targeting areas such as Texas and Florida, where rivals hold a little bit stronger positions, but they're trying to fix that. Now, Honda began 2026 with 1,346 franchises after adding only seven stores over the past three years. Now this signals a meaningful shift in the historically measured approach to expansion because now they're going to jump in here big time. Couple of other items in the news, you're going to hear about Aston Martin turns up the power and they're adding special editions and custom bills. So they're not too worried about the interest rate, but they're still moving. And of course, that's a high-end car. And there's a couple others here. Like McLaren's 2030 roadmap includes its first SUV. It's going to have some hybrid coupes and a sedan-like GT. Lamborghini. Its future product is all about plug-in hybrids. And Rolls-Royce, a big name brand in expensive cars, nears a debut of the additional electric vehicles and extends the use of their V12s. That's just a few things that we saw this week in automotive news that we're following. We'll be right back after this quick break. For more than 14 years, In Wheel Time has been talking about the cars, the trucks, the people, and the stories that make the automotive world interesting. Now we're taking in wheel time to the next level. New vehicles, automotive news, car reviews, motorsports, industry leaders, and interesting people. We're going to take you beyond the driveway and the dealerships with stories from the people who build, race, restore, and actually live the automotive lifestyle. And we're hitting the road with driving destinations worth discovering. First across Texas and eventually wherever the road can take us. Plus, we're going to have some automotive history, features, interviews, and stories that you may have missed. It's still in-wheel time, but there's a lot more of it to discover. Watch us, listen to us, follow us. It's in wheel time. Cars, trucks, and the people who love them. That's

What’s Next And Sign-Off

Mike Marrs 28:27

it for the first half hour of In Wheel Time today. Coming up in our next half hour, we're going to be talking with Carl Wick with the American Pontiac Association. And we're going to have a look at some automotive history. We're going to talk about the race card. And we're going to look at some upcoming events that you may be interested in as you plan your calendar out for the next couple of weeks. So be sure and stay with us for the next half hour of our program. I'm Michael Mars. Thank you for joining us today on In Wheel Time.