Unpacking the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve: Insights with Dr. Sheldon Jacobson

US Petroleum Reserve and Oil Market

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome to another In Wheel Time podcast , a 30-minute mini version of the In Wheel Time Car Show that airs live every Saturday morning 8 to 11 am Central . You've got the In Wheel Time Car Talk Show today , coming to you from home , sweet home , the Sugar Shack Studios just outside Houston , texas . Coming up , we talk to Dr Sheldon Jacobson about the US strategic oil supply . All right , and , among other things , jeff has the cruise in calendar and we'll have the stories making automotive news headlines this week . Howdy Along with Mike out of this world , mars . We always need more .

Speaker 1 0:43

Jeff Zekin , you don't want to know who I am ? No , we don't . So we just won't even say the name . No , no , no . Say the name . Say my name , okay , Isn't that a Beyonce thing ? Say my name , you would know . Jeff . I don't know that one , okay , well , great , all right . So let's get to our guest this hour . His name is Sheldon Jacobson . Good morning . Phd founder , professor of computer science , director , sim and Opt Lab , and we'll find out what all that is . Director of Bedtime Research Institute . Hey , there we go . Department of Computer Science , university of Illinois , urbana , illinois . Dr Jacobson , good morning to you , sir .

Speaker 2 1:28

Good morning . Wonderful to be with you this morning .

Speaker 1 1:30

Well , thank you . It's a pleasure to have you with us this morning . We feel honored and I like so . Tell me the SIM and Opt Lab . What is the Opt Lab ?

Speaker 2 1:41

Sure Simulation and simulation and optimization laboratory . We develop models using simulation technology and optimization algorithms to basically solve real problems oh my god , I knew that .

Speaker 3 1:54

I knew that . I knew that he's way smarter than we are , that's for darn sure . All right now , spell it yeah exactly .

Speaker 1 2:03

So let's talk about the nation's strategic petroleum reserve . When did that come about ? Early 70s , mid-70s ?

Speaker 2 2:12

In the mid-1970s exactly . It was created because there was an oil crisis , if you recall .

Speaker 1 2:18

Oh , we recall very well .

Speaker 2 2:20

yes , and as a result of that , the government put forward a strategic petroleum reserve so that if there were any kind of bumps in the road , so to speak , in terms of oil production or access to oil , then they would have a reserve available . So they created the capacity of close to three quarters of a billion gallons , around 720 million gallons and they filled it and it's been there for almost 50 years , although its level kind of rises and falls over time .

Speaker 2 2:53

But it is available any time there is a crisis , that a president deems necessary to release oil so that people can drive their cars and fly in airplanes , and so forth .

Speaker 1 3:03

Now isn't the reserve . If memory serves me correctly , it's a natural place in Louisiana , is that right ?

Speaker 2 3:13

There are actually four locations . Two are in Louisiana and two are in Texas , so not too far from you actually . They're on the Gulf Coast , basically , and what it does is it gives access to the people who are doing drilling and refineries so that they can get gasoline into the hands of the consumers , so that there's no shortages . People are really concerned about spikes in price , of course . Anytime there's an incident 2,000 , 5,000 miles away , people take advantage of it and raise the price , even though there's no need to raise the price . The psychology of a potential shortage means that you'll pay 50 cents more per gallon , literally instantly , even if it doesn't cost the producers that much . So the strategic petroleum stockpile is really there to buffer those kinds of short-term fluctuations .

Speaker 1 4:03

I see I always thought of it is an actual product , but it's really not .

Speaker 2 4:07

it's more of a psychological thing well , it is a product , because when you have hundreds of millions of gallons or about barrels of gasoline or fuel that is available , it is a product . But once again the consumer amer think with their heads and respond emotionally . And what this tries to do is temper that emotional overreaction so that hopefully when you go to the pump you're not going to be paying that extra 50 cents or dollar per gallon , even when there's no need to because there's plenty of oil .

Speaker 1 4:39

Yeah , and where do we get most of our oil from today ? And where do we get most of our oil from today ? Because I know for a while there , when we had a different administration , I think that we were producing a lot of oil in the United States Domestically . Yeah .

Speaker 2 4:54

And we still are . We still are . The majority of the oil that we use is domestic , and fracking has been a big part of that . Obviously , we in fact produce more domestically than we import . Of course , canada is always a very large importer of oil for us . They bring in a lot for us so , as a result , our oil supply is fairly stable . However , the Middle East Europe what's going on in Russia with Ukraine ? What's going on in the Middle East right now ? There's always the potential that something will change , and the Strategic Petroleum Reserve gives us a little bit of an insurance policy to protect against that .

Speaker 1 5:30

So I understand that our current president has been selling off some of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve .

Speaker 2 5:38

Yes , he has . In fact , a number of presidents have done that , both Republican and Democrats , to be fair to both sides . At the same time , though , more of the Democrats have been selling than the Republicans , although President Trump , in his time , did sell , and he tried to replenish it in his final year , it didn't quite work out , so we have around one half of the capacity right now , around 360 , 370 million barrels . Right now in the stockpile Capacity is around 720 , 730 .

Speaker 1 6:07

Is that something for us that we should be worried about ?

Speaker 2 6:11

Worry is probably too strong a word . It's a question of how much insurance do you want to have ? That's really the question . Think of it just as an insurance policy . If you don't use it , you've lost the premium , and the premium is the cost of maintaining it . Oil prices now are around $80 per barrel . They were at peaks well over $100 not that long ago . They've been at lows in the $30 and $40 range . You want to replenish it when the prices are low . You want to buy low , obviously , and sell high if you have to .

Speaker 1 6:39

So that would be . The United States government is actually flitting the bill for this , so when we sell off some of it , they get some of their money back . I would assume that it would be at the current price or current rate that oil is selling for , rather than what you bought it .

Speaker 2 6:55

They sell it to one of the companies who is going to then refine it . They will sell it at the current rate , with a slight premium based on the cost of the transmission of it and so forth . So it's a very complex process , but the bottom line is it's available in case we have a major crisis , so that people can get in their cars and fill up with gasoline , because that's the last thing that we want is people .

Speaker 1 7:18

So who is it that makes the decision that , okay , well , we need some money , or we don't need this much oil . We need the money , we don't need this much oil , we're going to sell some of it off . Who is it that makes that decision in the government ?

Speaker 2 7:31

Well , ultimately it comes down to the current administration . They have the power and authority to make these kinds of decisions and they will continue to do that . It's a small decision in the grand scheme , unless we had a major world conflict that would shut down the oil fields in the Middle East and there would be a strain even in our own production . Cyber attacks we forget about the fact that cyber attacks can bring down the oil companies and their production facilities in terms of using the technology to keep it running . There's so many risks and threats out there . Having the strategic petroleum reserve available is just one of those little things that helps the country feel a little safer energy-wise .

Speaker 3 8:14

So is that part of the Department of Transportation , or is that weights and measures , because there's two different departments there .

Speaker 2 8:20

Well , everybody is going to advise on the process . Ultimately , the administration makes the decision . I mean you also have the Department of Energy involved . Everybody is involved . This is not just a single person making these decisions . Ultimately , the consumers are the people that need to be served , and let's never forget that we elect our elected officials to serve us , the people . Sometimes they seem to forget that , but at the end of the day , having that oil available will ensure a continuous , non-interrupted stream of fuel for people to drive their cars and do all the other things they do with the oil today .

Speaker 1 8:55

Well , the fracking that you're talking about , I know that it has revitalized West Texas , the Perbian Basin oil field out there , and I guess that's pretty much nationwide wherever there's a sack of oil underneath the ground , and they've already sucked out all of the liquid . A sack of oil . Now they're going down there and blowing off some little charges and releasing more oil underneath the ground and do we see an end to that ? I mean , is that going to continue now , till eternity , till we're dead ?

Speaker 2 9:28

Well , there's a limited amount of reserve . I mean , we have tens of billions of barrels of oil of reserve just in the United States and the challenge is how do you get it out ? And once you've introduced fracking , fracking was a game changer when it came to oil in this country . Right , and some people don't like it . It disrupts the , the geo , uh , the geological structures in the earth . But the reality is , when it comes to petroleum and oil , fracking made a big , big difference and stabilized our energy situation more than I think people realize . So the fact is it does a lot of good things economically , certainly for for your area in Texas , but it also has done tremendous things to stabilize our energy portfolio in the United States . It's going to continue because it has to .

Speaker 1 10:16

Basically , for just a minute about the pipeline that was in the process of being built between Canada and the southern United States , where the refineries are , and that was put on hold with the current administration . Has that really affected the oil reserve or the opportunity to pump more oil to keep the domestic continental United States , northern continents really producing oil ? What's the effect of that ?

Speaker 2 10:45

Well , right now we still have plenty of oil available . We're in a relatively stable situation when it comes to energy in our country . So , as a result of that , anytime you have a new administration , they're going to have new policies and new ideas , and we're going to be coming to that within the next year . As we have an an election coming up , what will change is certainly unclear . I don't have a , I don't have a crystal ball I can look for into it and see who's going to win .

Speaker 2 11:08

However , yes , it really does come down to risk mitigation and as much as we like to believe that we can rely on in our society without oil , oil drives energy and power and we have to continue to consider it , at least in the foreseeable future . Maybe 200 years down the line it will be different it's not going to be different in the short term .

Speaker 1 11:32

All right , let's talk about gasoline prices , and how does the price of oil affect the refined product called gasoline ?

Speaker 2 11:41

Absolutely Everything does . Whatever a barrel costs , a certain fraction of it will become gasoline in a tank of an automobile or an SUV . That is the reality , and if the barrel of oil is more expensive , then the gasoline is more expensive . There's other issues that come into play in terms of refining markups and so forth . Taxes state taxes are another issue , and then the introduction of electronic vehicles as well as hybrids means that people are using less fuel and traveling the same distances . It's creating budget conflicts within states who are trying to recoup their transportation costs for their highways and their roads purely from a gasoline tax , but if an automobile is using less gasoline , they're not getting the tax revenue . This is a complex issue you brought up right now , and there are different things on the table in terms of some kind of mileage level tax , or Virginia has a tax based on a vehicle you own , just plain and simple . So every state's a little different .

Speaker 1 12:40

I believe that Texas has a set figure If you own an electric vehicle , when it comes time to register your car up the registration on the car I think there's like a $200 fee to try to recoup that cost . Is that the general way that the states are making back their money ?

Speaker 2 12:58

Every state operates so independently , but that is one model that certainly would work . If you do it based on consumption of fuel , you're going to be in a downward trend for quite some time . So this is the reality . We have to react to it . Someone has to pay for the roads ultimately and it means us . Whether it's going to be through a gas tax or a vehicle ownership task , someone has

Global Energy Trends and Political Implications

Speaker 2 13:23

to pay for that .

Speaker 1 13:23

What do you see happening in the immediate future , let's just say till the end of the year ? Are things going to stabilize and be the way that they are until the elections are over with ? Do you see any big upsets outside of the Middle East conflict and conflicts around the world ? Ukraine you mentioned as well . Are there going to be any upsets as long as things stay the way that they are today ?

Speaker 2 13:49

Well , in terms of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve , they've started to add more fuel to it , more barrels of oil to it , simply because they realize it's gotten to a level that maybe isn't quite strategically appropriate . So I think it's going to continue to rise . But we're also buying it at around 80 per hour right now . It's not , you know , it's not cheap . It's expensive , relatively speaking , where the average cost of the oil in the reserve is on the order of 30 . So you really are buying near a potential top .

Speaker 2 14:19

But you can't avoid , when you're talking about oil and energy . You can't avoid talking about world conflicts , and the russian ukraine situation is not going away . The middle east situation is probably going to get worse before it gets better , and you just don't know how the players are going to react . And we have a country right now where we have , you know , two , have two people running for president that are both have real major issues in their lives . How is that going to all play out ? And no crystal ball here , but all I can say is these are the facts and we have to deal with them .

Speaker 1 14:54

Well , I noticed that all of the major oil refiners , the guys that make the gasoline oil refiners , the , the guys that make the gasoline , they seem to be diversifying . And I say that because there is a soccer stadium here in town that went from one uh sponsorship to another and the new sponsorship is now shell energy . So it's not shell oil company or shell gasoline , it's energy . So I think that their marketing department is repositioning themselves to diversify what we think of as Shell , as the gasoline company , and kind of divvying it up , so to speak . Do you think that that's going to continue ?

Speaker 2 15:35

Well , branding is so important , and we saw this over the last 50 years , when fried foods became socially unacceptable , so companies which had fried in their name did away with it . I don't want to mention the obvious one .

Speaker 1 15:48

Kentucky Fried Chicken sure .

Speaker 2 15:50

It used to be Kentucky Fried Chicken , now it's KFC . It's still fried , but where's the fried word ? They took it out . I believe companies are going to start to do this simply because of the perception . But we also saw this happening with the companies who produce cigarettes and smoking and tobacco . They started to change their labeling and the way they presented themselves . So so much of it is perception and , I believe , the energy industry . You know they get a bad rap , but the reality is we still need oil .

Speaker 2 16:19

And that's not going to change anytime soon . There is a lower demand , but it's incremental . Going to change anytime soon ? Uh , it's getting . There is a lower demand , but it's incremental compared to the absolute amount that we're using I think was it .

Speaker 3 16:28

Conoco is merging with marathon and it was marathon and some other oil company are billions and billions and billions of dollars . It's only stock . They're only going to trade stock . There's not going to be any money actual given money but , like you were saying , a lot of people they don't think about . When they think oil , they think gasoline , they don't think about all the other petroleum-based products that everybody uses every day of their life .

Speaker 1 16:52

Almost everything .

Speaker 3 16:53

Yes , of course .

Speaker 2 16:54

Absolutely . I mean plastics involve oil products , jet fuel . When you fly , you're not immune to oil products . That's why the oil industry is consolidating right now . As you just pointed out , they're starting to merge and what they're going to ultimately do is redefine their role , but their role is not going away . I can assure you of that .

Speaker 1 17:16

Have you ever thought about running for president ?

Speaker 2 17:22

I think I'm too smart to do that . I think so .

Speaker 3 17:26

Good answer .

Speaker 2 17:28

We love that .

Speaker 3 17:28

And you don't want to take a pay cut .

Speaker 2 17:31

That's exactly right . I'll probably get a pay raise , yeah exactly .

Speaker 1 17:35

So are you . I assume that you are in Illinois .

Speaker 2 17:40

I'm in Illinois , that's good .

Speaker 1 17:40

Yeah . And where is the university where you are in Illinois ? I am in Illinois , that's good , yeah . And where is the university where you are , in Urbana ?

Speaker 2 17:45

We're in kind of central west side of central east side of Illinois . So we're around 120 miles from Chicago , 120 miles from Indianapolis and 150 miles from St Louis . We're right in that middle point .

Speaker 1 17:59

Yeah , yeah . Well , I'll tell you what . If you have any classes here in Texas , I'm coming . I'm signing up . I'll be your first student .

Speaker 2 18:08

Okay , I will welcome you to the classroom .

Speaker 1 18:11

Well , I'll tell you this , that I really appreciate you joining us today , and we love your wisdom and all of the things that you had to say as far as getting us to understand and explain the strategic oil reserve and gasoline and prices , and all of the things that you had to say as far as getting us to understand and explain the strategic oil reserve and gasoline and prices , and all of the stuff that's going on , and even the politics part of it too . It's fascinating and it's all intertwined . What a marriage that is , golly . Yeah . So , dr Jacobson , thank you so much again . Thank you , sir . We hope to be in touch with you later on . Let's talk again at the beginning of the year , after the election , shall we ?

Speaker 2 18:48

Sounds like a plan .

Speaker 1 18:49

It's a date . Thank you again . We appreciate you . Thank you , have fun .

Barrel of Oil and Car Talk

Speaker 3 18:53

Yeah , great information there , you know people think of a barrel of oil as a 55-gallon drum . That is not a barrel oil . Barrel oil is 43 gallons because when they struck oil that was the only device they had was a 43 gallon container . So that is actually considered a barrel of oil , not the big 55 gallon things that you see . Really , yeah , 43 , 43 , I think . I believe it's 40 , it might be 41 , I think it's 43 . Well , whatever I did , not know , that's not 55 . No , it's not 55 I'll be well .

Speaker 1 19:24

All I can think of is , uh , you know , when it gets cold outside and you put all of the trash that you've been collecting for weeks and weeks to burn it in a burn barrel that's all that comes to mind .

Speaker 3 19:34

Go get that picasso to that to the street , one of the oil reserves that uh is not far from here . Because when I'm my younger days , when worked for the phone company , we had to go out there and fill up this guy's walking around with M16s . I mean they're loaded for bear yes , it is and they want to look at your truck .

Speaker 1 19:50

They want to look at you going and coming Kind of like the place out there in the desert where the aliens landed .

Speaker 3 20:03

The place that doesn't exist desert where the aliens landed . Yeah , the place that doesn't exist .

Speaker 1 20:05

I know that place Exactly , hey . The In Real Time Car Talk Show is available 24-7 through the iHeartRadio app . Just look for In Real Time Car Talk Podcasts from your favorite podcast provider . We also video stream our three-hour weekly show on Facebook , youtube and InRealTimecom . The In Real Time Car Talk Show continues right after this quick break .

Speaker 1 20:23

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Speaker 1 21:23

Want to feel good about something special ? You did for someone special In Real Time and the original Loopy Tortilla group of Tex-Mex restaurants have joined together to help a very worthy cause God's Garage , a Christian-based 501c3 charity . We know there are lots of places and organizations out there where you can donate a car , truck or SUV , but we're asking you , our car enthusiast family , to consider donating to God's Garage . Visit godsgarageorg and learn about its mission , the women that have been helped , how each one is screened and about their Restore . You program . A car donation is an easy way to make a difference in the lives of others . God's Garage needs good operating vehicles but will take all types in working and non-working condition . Make your heart and soul feel good by donating your gently used vehicle and help support single mothers , widows and wives of deployed military at godsgarageorg . Hey , thanks , for I got too many buttons here I'm pushing .

Speaker 3 22:29

Mike's freaking out because it went dead .

Speaker 1 22:32

Sorry , I've got too many things going on . I got this going on , this , this , listen , I'm just . I'm so busy and flustered and reclept . All right , welcome back to the Interworld Time Car Talk Show . Welcome back , cruise in calendar time . Yeah , we got some stuff going on right now .

Speaker 3 22:49

We've got obviously today's Saturday , june 1st , and it is also hurricane season , so it's starting up . We've got Revving Up Hope at the Carbock Brewery . It's 9 o'clock this morning so it's coming up in just a few minutes . That's at 12032 Carbock Street in Houston . It's 9 am to 2 pm . You've got the Car Show and Tomball Retirement Center coming up at 10 o'clock this morning .

Speaker 1 23:11

What is that one ? Oh , that sounds like us . It's the Car .

Speaker 3 23:13

Show Tomball Retirement Center . Tomball Retirement Center . They're going to pick us up here in a little bit in a van and take us up there , okay , 13 415 Medical Complex Drive in Tomballm , yep . Another one going on today is the Conroe Cruiser Saturday Night Cruise . That's at the Kroger Marketplace parking lot at 341 South Loop , 336 West in Conroe . That's from 6 pm to 9 pm tonight . Did you type that no ?

Speaker 1 23:42

So , in other words , I just copy and paste . No , I know , but the paper that , oh , no , no , the paper that you put on your printer .

Speaker 3 23:49

I had paper stacked with different things and I went to fill it and this fanned it up . So you know we'll use it . Yeah , anyways , tomorrow Chrome and Coffee when Don Avalon Diner , so that'll be happening tomorrow In the fountains In the fountains yep , that's right out of the box tomorrow .

Speaker 3 24:04

And then the Woodlands Cars and Coffee for a Cause that's what Randy was talking about . Market Street and Woodlands , 9595 Six Pines Drive . That's 6.30 am to 10.30 am tomorrow . Weekly Car Meetup in Willis what you talking about at the DM , what you talking about Willis DM to value . That's at 3 pm . And then the last one Sundays at Freddy's . It's always going on , it . And then the last one Sundays at Freddy's . It's always going on . It's a recurring event . It's off of 1960 . At 12407 FM , 1960 , from 5 pm till 7 pm .

Speaker 1 24:35

From Automotive News . Us Department of Labor on Thursday sued South Korean auto giant Hyundai , an auto parts plant and the labor recruiter over illegal use of child labor in Alabama . The complaint filed in US District Court in Montgomery also sought an order requiring the companies to relinquish any profits related to the use of child labor . Reuters reported in 2022 that children , some as young as 12 , worked for a Hyundai subsidiary and other parts suppliers for the company in that southern state . The labor department filing named three companies as defendants .

Speaker 1 25:14

The department's wage and hour division found the child had worked up to 60 hours a week on a smart assembly line operating machines that formed sheet metal into auto body parts . The stamping yes , a stamping plant yeah , a stamping plant . The Smart plant supplies parts to Hyundai Motor Manufacturing Alabama , which assembles popular cars such as the Hyundai Santa Fe , the Tucson and the Santa Cruz . Imagine owning one of those and knowing some 12-year-old stamped out your door . According to the Labor Department Complaint , smart informed the staffing firm that two additional employees were not welcomed back at the facility due to their appearance and other physical characteristics , but suggested they also were underage .

Speaker 3 25:57

Yikes , or they just get a ride home that afternoon in the car they just built .

Speaker 1 26:01

Yeah , the school bus has a different look to it now . A Reuters investigation revealed the widespread and illegal employment of migrant children in Alabama factories supplying parts to both Hyundai and sister brand Kia . Us Labor Department says it has seen a surge in child labor violations and has investigated cases involving get this 5,792 children nationwide , including hundreds employed in hazardous occupations in the 2023 fiscal year . Are you kidding ?

Speaker 3 26:35

me . So then there's probably that going on , as some of the mining and the refining and the mining and the lithium .

Speaker 1 26:40

Oh wow , key America has accused a New England dealer , five of its former dealerships , one current dealership , five of its former dealerships , one current dealership and the group's COO of racketeering , fraud and related wrongdoing for a scheme that allegedly bilked the automaker out of hundreds of thousands of dollars in unearned sales incentives . Dan O'Brien Auto Group's three former Kia stores in Concord , new Hampshire , northampton , new Hampshire and Norwood Mass allegedly submitted hundreds of fraudulent retail delivery reports that purported new Kia vehicles . According to the complaint , they say the loss is more than $500,000 . Okay , mr O'Brien , you go for it . Buster , you're in a heap of trouble now . Heap of kimchi , mm-hmm .

Speaker 1 27:24

Federal Trade Commission this month defended its new rule regulating dealership advertising and finance and insurance practices , telling the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals the regulations were necessary , developed fully and far more helpful to society than burdensome to dealers . Nada and the Texas Automobile Dealers Association in January petitioned the appellate court to kill or modify part or all of the regulations . The combating auto retail scams , or CARS rule , was scheduled to take effect this summer , but the FTC opted to put it on hold pending the outcome of the case . Well , guess what Case is over with you lose Case closed . It's going to go and you're out of luck . Here's that . Okay Right , new stories for . Okay Right , new stories for this hour . Hey , by the way , we would love to hear from you anytime . You can write us , text us , do whatever you'd like Well , almost anything . Just shoot us an email . The address here is info . At inwheeltimecom , we've got more of the In Wheel Time Car Talk .

Speaker 3 28:27

Show coming up right after this break .

Speaker 1 28:30

Everyone at the Tailpipes and Tacos Cruise Inn at the Loopy Tortilla Tex-Mex in Katy . Thank you for participating in the best cruise inn around and look forward to seeing you again . You'll hear about the next cruise inn date right here on In Real Time . Next time you're in the West Houston Energy Corridor area , be sure and stop in at the original Loopy Tortilla Tex-Mex at I-10 and Highway 6 or the KD location on the Grand Parkway at Kingsland Boulevard when passing through Beaumont or College Station . Stop in and have Loopy's award-winning beef fajitas and frozen margaritas . There's always a celebration at Loopy Tortilla . Loopy Tortilla founders Stan Holt and his wife Sheila are winning racers on the NHRA drag racing circuit and have a collection of hot rods and classics that everyone appreciates . Look for them at the next Tailpipes and Tacos cruise-in . The date will be announced soon and will once again be held at the Loopy Tortilla Tex-Mex on 99 and Kingsland Boulevard , just south of I-10 in Katy . We'll give you all the details right here on the In Real Time Car Talk show and online Donations benefit God's Garage . We'll see you then .

Speaker 1 29:27

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Speaker 1 29:55

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