Motorsports Mavericks - Inside A Legendary Racing Photo Archive
A single photo can hit harder than a trophy list, and that’s the heart of our conversation with motorsports author George Levy. George joins us to talk about Motorsports Mavericks, a big, beautiful coffee table book built from the late Pete Biro’s astonishing body of work. Pete didn’t just shoot “cars on track.” He captured the humor, the danger, the exhaustion, and the moments you only get when you’re allowed far closer than today’s rules would ever permit.
We dig into what it takes to curate a lifetime archive, including the reality that Biro left behind more than 250,000 images spanning Formula One, IndyCar and the Indy 500, NASCAR, drag racing, endurance racing, off-road, and land speed record history. George shares how interviews and firsthand voices turn iconic images into real scenes, from hard-working crews to the stars who lived for racing. Yes, we talk about the era of celebrity racers too, including Paul Newman’s legit skill and Steve McQueen’s relentless competitiveness.
Then we pivot from the glory days to right now with a fast weekend update: car shows, cruises, and regional events, plus a quick race calendar so you can plan your next drive. If you love racing history, vintage motorsports photography, and the people behind the machines, you’ll want this one in your queue. Subscribe to the podcast, share this with a car friend, and leave us a review so more listeners can find the show.
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00:00 - Welcome And Guest Setup
01:03 - George Levy’s Racing Writing Journey
02:12 - Pete Bayro’s Photos And Legacy
06:15 - Editing 250,000 Images Into A Story
10:20 - Celebrity Racers And Real Competition
13:55 - Mechanics Stories And Behind The Scenes
19:06 - Where To Buy The Book
21:41 - Break And Show Promo
22:53 - Weekend Car Shows And Cruises
28:10 - Race Calendar And Track Events
29:50 - Podcast Info And Sign Off
Welcome And Guest Setup
Mike MarrsWelcome back to In Wheel Time. Coming up, we're going to be talking with George Levy. And we're also going to take a look at our feature where the road can take us this week. And then we're going to wrap up the weeks with uh some automotive news stories, maybe even a few more events that we can pull in here. But first thing we want to do is we need to talk to this man. I'm telling you, he has developed a book. And I'm going to start with this. And I've got another picture I want to show of it. But this is the Motor Sports Mavericks, George Levy. That's it right that time.
SPEAKER_01That's me.
Mike MarrsAll right. Very good, sir. Glad you could join us today. I've been looking into this uh for several months. Uh this is a coffee table book. Anybody that's looking for it. The holidays are coming up. And I'm telling you that if you have an automotive enthusiast in your family, this covers just about everything there is. There's some remarkable stuff in here. George, I'm going to let you tell us about. Tell you what, let's
George Levy’s Racing Writing Journey
Mike Marrsstart with you. Give us a little background on your automotive writing history.
SPEAKER_01Uh I grew up in the 60s. I fell in love uh with um everything motorsport um as a very young guy. And uh the 60s and 70s, when you know I was in uh 70s, I was a teenager. Uh just everything about motorsports captured me. I then went on uh to get a job with Auto Week, uh the great uh weekly uh magazine about uh cars and racing, and rose to editor at 27. Um had a lot of different stops along the way, did a lot of writing for a lot of people. Uh but my most recent post was as the president of the Motorsports Hall of Fame of America here in Florida, uh, which I retired from earlier this year.
Mike MarrsSo you've been around, probably seen almost all of this stuff. I mean, obviously you've written about it, but you also had a collaborator, uh,
Pete Bayro’s Photos And Legacy
Mike MarrsPete Bayro is also listed. Tell us a little bit about his contribution to this.
SPEAKER_01So Pete uh was a we were best friends. I mean, we were uh you know, dear, dear buds. And uh we started doing books together. He was one of the greatest motorsports photographers of the the 20th century, and that's not just me saying that uh, you know, the the community seemed to feel the same way about it. If you talk to people like uh Mario or uh Andretti or Jackie Stewart, you know, they uh knew and loved uh uh Pete. And he had this tremendous archive, and and in the last years of his life, um he wanted to do books. He asked if I would uh do the words uh and he would supply the pictures. Our first book, Can Am 50th Anniversary, uh you know, fortunately was very, very well received, won some uh big awards. We've done a number of other books. But when Pete was in his last days, um, you know, he said that his last wish was if there could be a book that was a compilation of his greatest hits, his best uh photos, some of his most beloved stuff, and a lot of stuff people have never seen before. Um, and I wanted to make that uh come true for him. And that's what Motorsports Mavericks is. It's uh just a collection of fantastic uh photography, but it's also uh a love letter to what I and others would call the glory days of the 60s and 70s in all forms of racing.
Mike MarrsI I I can't imagine the the process you had to go through to do this because some of the pictures I saw immediately brought back old memories. There's one of them right up close to the front. I'm gonna tell you this story while I put this up here of uh Don Garlet uh in his front engine dragster, and he's got the the face, the half helmet on, and he's got the fire mask on. Well, my younger days back in the late 60s, early 70s, I tried to help a guy that was building a front engine. He was using small block Chevy, you know, with injectors and all that stuff, you know, get started. But Don Garletz literally signed his dragster license at one of the Houston tracks over here. So when I saw that picture, I have a picture of my buddy just like that, except the engine's different, but close enough anyway. So I can see how this book would bring back memories for any automotive enthusiast because it covers such a broad spectrum of the sport.
SPEAKER_01Well, that was one of the things that was amazing about Pete. You know, a lot of the great photographers and you know, in the uh the 50s, 60s, 70s were really the heyday of motorsports photography. Um, in part because the photographers had incredible access. They could go almost anywhere. Uh more than a few got killed uh because they were, you know, in harm's way. And there are some pictures we could talk about in the book where you know you're going, oh my god, I can't believe where Pete had to be standing uh to get that picture with the car going by inches away at you know 150 miles an hour or whatever. Uh, but they had such great access, so it attracted a lot of the great photographers out there. Um, but what made Pete kind of different, uh, and why motorsports Mavericks is different, is because he was seemingly everywhere. You know, he didn't specialize in Formula One or NASCAR or uh IndyCar. He went everywhere. And so you'll see in Motorsports Mavericks that you know there's uh some wonderful Formula One. He covered the Indy 500 for like 30 straight years. Uh NASCAR uh land speed record, he was there when Craig Greedlove went 600 miles an hour in the
Editing 250,000 Images Into A Story
SPEAKER_01mid-60s in the spirit of America and so on and so on. And we wanted to um you know communicate that full range and spectrum of of things that he covered.
Mike MarrsWell, before we go any further, I'm gonna put this other picture up here that I got of the uh contents pages, and it kind of puts it up there. In fact, let me put it up here big. It kind of goes into the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, and it kind of shows how the book is broken up and and some of the titles for the chapters and stuff are just you know they make you want to go straight to it. And uh I read in there that you spent a lot of time going through the pictures. You actually did the photography editing, if you will, for the pictures that go in here.
SPEAKER_01Yes, uh uh, you know, Pete again, uh in his final days, uh, you know, he and his family asked me if I would um pull together his archive. Um, because like a lot of uh uh photographers, um uh some of it was really well organized, some of it was less well organized. Um, some of it was still uh sitting at uh you know in magazine archives, and and and so I you know went out and and retrieved a lot of that uh stuff. And uh so I I was intimately familiar with um you know his full archive, which by the way, was over 250,000 images uh covering hundreds and hundreds of races and and events. Um and and Pete and I knew each other well enough and long enough where you know he had communicated well what uh he thought were uh some of his best shots and the things that were some of his favorite shots, and and so that part of it was relatively straightforward, um, because I knew what he wanted and what he intended. And then it was sort of like, well, what is the the story that will connect all those photographs together in in some uh logical way? And it was he shot during that gory days period of the 60s and 70s, and the the text is about what made that era so different from what came before, but also what has come afterwards. I mean, it was a really unique time in motorsports history.
Mike MarrsBut it seems like going through it that there are multiple pictures on on every page, you know, there and there's a lot of captions and a lot of text there to explain what was going on. And to me, that's what makes it so good to go through it. I can easily see it. You know, I get it for the pictures, you know, the old I got it for the pictures, uh, or the text. That's what it was. I don't remember. Uh, but anyway, so but you could you it was quilt. You you wanted to read what was going on with that picture because it was so enticing, so inviting to be involved in it.
SPEAKER_01And one of the things that's been a hallmark of the books we've done, and you know, there was Can M 50th anniversary, F1 Mavericks was uh the book that really kicked off this whole Mavericks series. Um yeah, there were several is a uh NASCAR Mavericks that's uh out there, and now Motorsports uh Mavericks. But um the hallmark of the ones that we've done is to interview um and and and get capture the voices of as many of the people featured in the story, but also in the picture. So, in a lot of cases, you'll see where, like, for example, there's um this wonderful photo later in the uh book where it's a a Dotson Trans Am car and the pit board is hanging against the the door and it reads uh fame money girls. Uh saw that, yeah. Yeah, and it's a it's just it's a really funny, warm uh shot. Well, you know, John Morton and and Pete Brock, who ran and drove for that uh
Celebrity Racers And Real Competition
SPEAKER_01uh team, are still around. And so instead of just using that picture, which we wanted to do, I talked to you know, both of them and said, okay, what was going on then? What was going through your mind? Why was that? And and and you know, I I love it when the voices can help uh add life uh to and dimension to the pictures uh beyond just what the images itself.
Mike MarrsIt it really is fascinating because it takes and it goes into there's there's a section in there about the stars, the Paul Newmans, the Steve McQueens, the people like that that were involved in racing. And you know, we hear stories, we you know, we hear stories about these guys, but apparently some of them were really involved in that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that was one of the hallmarks of uh the period, and again, something that was very special about uh those decades was that you had people like Paul Newman, uh James Garner, Dick Smothers of the Smothers brothers. Yeah, that surprised me. Yeah, Steve McQueen. Um, and and these guys were really, really passionate about racing, and in several cases, um, you know, they were between good and very good uh drivers. Paul Newman was a terrific driver. Steve McQueen, Dick's mothers were also very good, so it wasn't like they were just being, you know, dilettants and and just showing up and waving. I mean, they were taking part in most cases. Uh, you know, they ran uh or were part of owning teams and uh and they did films about the sport because they just love motor racing and they wanted to be part of it.
Mike MarrsAnd I'm sure it kind of helped them get in, do a little extra racing or a little extra driving. I saw one clip in there where uh one of McQueen's movies, they there was a claim because he an engine blew. So there the front office sent the claim, they sent the paperwork in. We need a new engine. And somebody asked, Well, who was driving? And they found out it was McQueen, and they say, eh, no more, you don't drive no more.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, there there was uh, you know, there was a lot of that. That that was the movie Le Mans, uh uh about the 24 hours. And um and McQueen uh was uh he had driven in the 12 hours of sievering earlier that year and was leading the race in the final hour when you know Mario Andretti was able to slip past. Now in endurance racing, there were multiple drivers, and and McQueen's co-driver, uh Peter Revson, did most of the the driving, but McQueen did hours of uh driving and he had broken his foot uh like a week or so earlier in a um uh a motorcycle racing accident. You know, McQueen was an even more avid motorcycle racer than than car driver, and um he had this, and I I can't remember whether I put the picture in the book, but uh yes, you did. It's there giant cast on his uh his foot, and and he had to uh uh glue uh or tape sandpaper to his heel on that uh foot so that it wouldn't slip off the the pedals because he it was amazing what he was able to do.
Mike MarrsYeah, I mean, you know, and this is a this is a megastar out here doing this racing, and he's taping sandpaper on the bottom of his shoe to compete, you know. So they were all apparently very, very competitive.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, exactly.
Mechanics Stories And Behind The Scenes
Mike MarrsSo uh how long did it take you to do this?
SPEAKER_01Um that's a uh a kind of we'll just measure it generally. But basically basically about uh you know eight years, but not working full-time on it. Uh shortly after P passed away, uh, and we had started on the book, I'd done a lot of the interviews and started the writing. Uh I was asked to be the the president of the Motorsports Hall of Fame. And um, and that was a job with a lot of responsibility. It took a lot of my uh uh time. So work proceeded slowly on the uh the book. And and part of the reason why I retired when I uh did was because you know I wanted to make sure that it time didn't drag on any further for uh projects like this.
Mike MarrsWell, I can I can imagine, or I can't imagine, the process of going through because each chapter is is focused on something and the titles that you have for those chapters and taking all this year, these years of uh photos and stuff that he's gotten that he took and then packaging them into a presentable story, like you've got it into the 60s, the 70s, and then you've got subgroups underneath that. Because he went, he's got off-road, he's got dag racing, NASCAR, he's got F1. I mean, it seems like if it was a race, he had pictures of it.
SPEAKER_01It it was just an incredible. And uh, when I was uh compiling his archive, I had this wonderful experience of um time travel back to you know a weekend uh you know 30, 40 years ago, and literally seeing it through my friend's eyes, you know, because uh, you know, he Pete, and as you can tell from the photos, uh he didn't just take pictures of okay, here's a car on the track, here's another car on the track, you know, he captured a lot of the uh the humor, the excitement, the the behind the scenes uh activities. Um, and so when you would look at the say the hundred or two hundred photos from a given race, you know, you really got a sense of, oh, you know, that caught his attention uh uh uh during the practice sessions. And oh, during the race, he uh he noticed this, and it was uh a kind of fun experience to share that uh with a friend.
Mike MarrsThere's also one in here that uh you don't see much of. There's a section in here, and it's called the men in the trenches, and it talks, he's got some great pictures of uh of different people doing different things. Tom McEwen's you know working on his dragster, and literally it says that the 1971, 24 hours of Daytona, the Gulf Porsche Crew Bolt, the Gulf Porsche crew rebuilt the transaxle, literally took it apart and rebuilt it in 92 minutes in Pit Lane.
SPEAKER_01The the rules that's amazing. It's a it's amazing story because uh the rules prohibited um uh just swapping out transmissions uh back then. So you know, you either retired the car or you rebuilt the transmission, and they did that in the pit lane. There were no speed limits in the pit lane back then, so cars are going by inches away. The the parts that uh you know they're taking out and trying to handle, you know, are piping hot. I mean, just you know, incredibly hot and there's grease everywhere and oil, and these guys have been up for 24 hours, and uh, because this was in the last stages of the race, and uh and Pete, and and that was the thing about Pete. Like, I I think if you look at there's some pictures of those guys on the on the pit wall. Uh there are guys of them doing the the transmission uh rebuild, and then there are some pictures of them afterwards, and they're greasy and dirty, and and you know, you can see the fatigue and the exhaustion in their eyes, uh, but still uh you know wired about you know getting this uh top, which they did. Um, and uh they're just those photos were so beautiful, but also those guys, the mechanics, uh there you go.
Mike MarrsUm I'm not sure if you can see it very good, but the book is full of pictures like this. It's amazing. All right, let me get back over here to the cover and give the people, everybody, a shot at the cover so they'll know what they're looking for. I bet we can do better than that. How's that? There we go. Motorsports mavericks, carrying drivers, brilliant designers, and milestone events. And there's really, I mean, it goes into the engineers, it goes into the ground crews, and there's just there's a lot of great stories in here for an automotive enthusiast. This makes a great gift. Now, where can you where can I find this book?
Where To Buy The Book
SPEAKER_01Well, I always love to um uh promote uh our great uh uh enthusiast bookstores uh around the country. Um, you know, in in Michigan, I just did a uh signing at Pastiners uh on uh October 10th, I believe. Uh I'm gonna be doing a book signing a Saturday at at uh Autobooks Aero Books in LA, which is a you know fantastic uh institution. It's of course available on on Amazon and some other major uh booksellers as well. So there are lots of ways that people can find uh motorsports mavericks. And by the way, I'll just point out that like even that photo, Pete was a magician with a camera, and I I'm not using that figuratively. That's also literally the case because when he wasn't uh doing uh motorsports photography, uh he was a professional music magician. Uh, he was even invited at one point to appear on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. And there are a lot of those uh shots where you know he just was looking at it like what will be surprising, what will be a shot that people haven't seen before? What will be a shot that uh some other photographers will wonder how the heck did uh he do that, just like uh you know in a magic act. And with the cover shot here, there's some you know nice uh storytelling where you know there's the car, obviously, and it's the all-dominant uh you know McLaren. But if you look at the and and this is why Pete framed it this way, if you look at the the signage in the background, it's lap 41. And what car is uh running in first place? Oh, car number four, the one that's that's passing by the camera right as we're we're looking. And number five was his teammate, and so it helped tell the story as well of how McLaren just dominated the Can Am in those days.
Mike MarrsThat's that's just it's all a matter of perspective, and I can see how being a magician you would have that imagination and that that view, being able to view and frame the subjects like that. That's it's just amazing. George, I want to thank you very much for joining us today and sharing the information. It is Motorsports Mavericks. You can get it at your favorite bookstore or Amazon uh if you need to, but it makes great gifts for upcoming Christmas, whatever you got, birthdays. It is a coffee book, it's big, it's heavy, it's beautiful. Thank you again, sir, and I do appreciate you joining us today.
SPEAKER_01Michael, uh, the pleasure is all mine. Thank you very much.
Break And Show Promo
Mike MarrsAll right, we're gonna take a quick break now. It'll be about 60 seconds, and then we're gonna be back and we're gonna look where the road will take us this week, and we're gonna look at some more events that are coming up on the weekends. Stay with us, we'll be right back after this.
SPEAKER_00It's that time again. Fire up those engines, heroes and high. Rides is rolling into Bastro for Veterans Day weekend. Friday night, cruise downtown. Saturday, 400 of the coolest rides in Texas take over Main Street. Honor our veterans, enjoy local food and shopping, and help support local charities and scholarships. Presented by Craig's Jewelry and over 200 local sponsors, November 13th and 14th, downtown Bastrop. Don't miss it.
Mike MarrsCars, trucks, SUVs, motorsports, road trips, and the people who make the automotive world interesting. In Wheel Time is changing and we're expanding. We're bringing you more automotive stories, more interviews, more destinations, and more of what you may have missed. From Texas to the automotive world beyond, in wheel time is your place for automotive talk without the politics or the nonsense. Join us for the next generation of In Wheel Time Cars, trucks, and the people who love
Weekend Car Shows And Cruises
Mike Marrsthem. All right, we're running a little bit short on time here because we ran a little bit long. We talked too much, I guess. And so we're going to go through a couple of things pretty quick. I wanted to talk about the weekend auto scene, the weekend update here we've got going on. And first up, we're going to run through this kind of quick. It's going to be Cruising Silsby, Silsby, Texas. If you're looking for something close to home on September the 26th, Cruising Silsby puts cars, trucks, and motorcycles on display at Kirby Memorial Football Stadium. Get started at 8 a.m. And so it's got plenty of time. You want to make a quick road trip over and check out East Texas and check out what's going on in Silsby, by all means, here it is. Also, today, the Big Woody's Waterfront Car Club. Now, this is from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. And it's in San Leon at the Topwater Grill. Got a beautiful place out on the water's edge. Great place to take your car out there, get some pictures of it, enjoy it. They're expecting a pretty good sized crowd, I understand, this year. So you ought to make it on out. Like 60 awards are planned across 10 classes, and it's presented by the American Pontiac Association. It's really a family event, and it's a nice day out almost on the water. So from there, we're going to run into Houston for the Hot Import Nights. Now, if you're looking for more imports, JDM builds, exotics, a lot of customized stuff, Hot Import Nights returns to the NRG Stadium from September the 26th and 27th. Now it's got a lot of things to do with cars, anime, cosplay, vendors, food, entertainment. Got a lot of things if you're looking for the uh hot import night type of event. From there, we're going to bounce up to the Good Guys Rod and Custom Association. Now, this is up at the Texas Motor Speedway. This is a really big show. And it's got lots of rods, customs, classics, muscle cars, imports, trucks, it all runs together there for the show. Runs 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. on both days. So if you enjoy getting out to the hot rod side of the hobby, this is more than just a parking lot gathering because good guys is really known across the country for cruising, autocross, burnout competitions. Got lots of music. It is a car show to say the least. If you want to go a little bit more to the east, maybe slide on over to the Nackedish 20th Annual Car Show. This is Nackadish, Louisiana. It's not too far, a little further. But it gives Southeast Texas drivers a reason to point the car east for their 20th annual car show. Now, this is October 2nd and 3rd. They have a Friday poker run that's followed by a fish fry and got some live music downtown on the riverbank, which is a really cool place to be for Christmas in particular. Saturday brings the main show running from 7 a.m. to 4 p.m. And the awards are at four. Great setting there on the water and uh really nice, lots of trees. Great place to go and set. Then we're gonna run over back to Houston for the Volkstoberfest. Now you can get a it's Volkswagen, and they're having fun. It's an Oktoberfest, Saturday, October the 3rd, 2026, at the shop club 13150 Brenton Ridge in Houston, Texas. So this is the Friendswood Classic Car Show and Burnout Houston, October the 3rd. Now you got multiple choices on third, but Friendswood hosts its 21st annual classic car show at Stevenson Park from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. Got vintage rides, vendors, uh food, awards. Now Burnout Houston brings a different flavor to the 2334 Gulf Terminal Drive featuring pre-1972 cars and motorcycles. You do have live music, DJs, and vendors. So whether your idea of Saturday is to run around with a bunch of classics that are really polished and look really cool and a nice setting in the park, or maybe you want something with a little more attitude. Houston's got both options on this Saturday. The Yellow Out Barbecue and Car Show in Pearland, Texas. Now, this one combines the horsepower and barbecue. The Yellow Out Campaign State Champion Barbecue Cook-Off and Yellow Out Day all takes place on October the 10th at the Pearland Knights of Columbus Hall. Now, this is a free family-friendly event. So you've got the IBCA Sanctioned Championship Barbecue Cook-Off. You got a car show, you got live music, you got vendors, even got a kid zone and a petting zoo. So lots of things going on. Car registration begins at 11 a.m. The awards at 4 p.m. So you've got plenty of time to come out, check out some interesting rides, smell the barbecue, and support the fundraiser for the community. Then stepping up to October the 17th is a little bit further out. This is the Back to the Past car show that goes on for uh from 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the Cornerstone Academy. It's at 9016 Westview Drive. Got a nice car show here. It's also to support the Spring Branch Independent School District alumni museum they've got on the grounds there. It's fascinating to go in and see it, even if you didn't go to that particular school. Made me wonder why we didn't do that at my school, because we've got a hundred years worth of tradition that we could have put in the idea. Anyway, so that's the weekend
Race Calendar And Track Events
Mike Marrsupdate. So if you've got some things that you'd like to put on a send us, then we'll try and put them on the list. Send us the flyer, send it to events at nwheeltime.com, include dates and times, things like that, so that we can give out the information. And we'll do our best to try and get it put on and get it included in the weekend update. So, real quick, we're going to go through the race card. We need to put some information up here. We're sponsored by the Texas Muscle Car Club Challenge. It is actually a racing series. By all means, if you're interested in doing some drag racing with like-minded folks, go to Facebook, find out some more information about the Texas Muscle Car Club Challenge. Now, September the 26th, this weekend, of course, NHRDA. Now, this is the Diesel National Hot Rod Diesel Association World Finals are going on at Texas Motorplex in Ennis in Crandall. It's the Smiley Smith Memorial Classic. Now, this is a dirt track race, it's up there. Then we're going to jump down here to October the 1st, Texas Motor Speedway Dirt Track Championship. Now, this is in Fort Worth at the Texas Motor Speedway. Then we're going to go over to the Bayou Classic. Now, this is in Boot Hill Speedway, and this is over in Greenwood, Louisiana. And this is World of Outlaws, and late models are going to be there. So that it's always interesting when you have the world of outlaws showing up. Then we're going to go October 9th. It's going to be October fast. This is the Cotton Bowl Speedway up in Page, Texas. This is another oval. We're going to wrap it up real quick. October the 10th, the Texas Muscle Car Club Challenge is going to be at the Little River Dragway in Holland, Texas. Gates open at 3 p.m. By all means, go out to Facebook, find out more information, join the Texas Muscle Car Club Challenge. Well,
Podcast Info And Sign Off
Mike Marrswe're running along here. I did not get the auto history in this week. So we're going to just take and put that up on straight into YouTube. If you're interested in following the auto history, it will be on YouTube. Give us a couple of days to get all that done. But right now, I want to thank you again for joining us today on In Wheel Time. Be sure and join us next Saturday, October the 3rd for the next episode of In Wheel Time. We're going to have plenty of guests. We're going to have all our regular features. And we're be streaming on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Twitch, and our website, inwheeltime.com. So we know also that you can't always make it out to the show and life gets in the way. Got things to do on Saturday mornings. Got it. But you can always find our podcast in wheeltimepodcast.com or go to your favorite podcast provider. It's there on almost all of them: Apple, Spotify, SiriusXM Podcast, iHeart Podcast, Amazon Podcast. It's out there in lots of places. And if it works out we're not on your favorite podcast provider, let us know and we'll see if we can remedy that for you. So again, thank you for joining us this week. I'm Michael Mars. Until next time, travel safe.
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