Chasing Legends: Unveiling the Enigmatic Racing Career of Jackie ICKX with Author John Saltinstall

Speaker 1: Welcome to another In Wheel Time podcast, a 30 minute mini version of the In Wheel Time car show that airs live every Saturday morning 8 to 11am, central From the Possum Studios in Texas, USA. It's the In Wheel Time Car Talk show. Coming up Jon Saltinstall and a book about the famous Jackie ICKX. Later, look at the stories making automotive news headlines this week Howdy, along with Mike out of this world, Marrs King Konrad DeLong. We always need more, Jeff Dziekan, i'm Don Armstrong. Thanks so much for joining us, and we're going to get right to our first guest here. Jon Saltinstall has written a book Jackie ICKX, his authorized competition history. Jon, good morning to you, sir. 
 
 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Don, and thank you for inviting me on Greg's talking to you. 
 
 Speaker 1: Well, it sounds to me like you're from East Texas based on your accent. Is that correct? 
 
 Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much. pretty much each from you. I'm over in England, I'm at the middle part of England. 
 
 Speaker 1: What city are you in, Jon? 
 
 Speaker 2: The nearest city that you might have heard of is Leicester. We're about 50 miles from Birmingham. 
 
 Speaker 1: Oh, I love it. Well, how's the weather on a Saturday afternoon? 
 
 Speaker 2: Hey, we're doing well today, Don. We've got about 20 degrees centigrade over here, so it's pretty nice for a change. 
 
 Speaker 1: Well, that's good. And it's not raining, and is it cloudy? 
 
 Speaker 2: No, no, we've got we've got blue skies for a change. For once, it's not raining in England, oh, right, I love that. 
 
 Speaker 1: Well, I have to tell you I'm a huge fan of Wheeler Dealers. Have you ever heard of that All? 
 
 Speaker 2: right, Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah yes, i love that show. 
 
 Speaker 1: All right. Well, back to the subject at hand and the book at hand. And you've written a book about Jackie ICKX. I remember early on, in the very beginning, when I started really getting into car racing back in the 60s, a guy by the name of Jackie ICKX. I knew nothing of him, i didn't know anything of the history about him, but I knew that he was a racer, and a very successful racer. 
 
 Speaker 3: Extremely successful Yeah. 
 
 Speaker 1: And so tell us about his authorized competition history. 
 
 Speaker 2: Well, this the book came about. It was I'd previously a book that followed exactly the same format on the great Austrian driver, Nikki Lauda, and that had been a book that I'd written really as a sort of passion project. That you know, I wrote the book that I wanted to read because it didn't exist, the idea being that it would follow a rather unusual format in reporting every individual race you take part in and trying to illustrate it with a photograph from that race. And I thought that having Done that had sort of and that somebody thought it was good enough to publish and somebody else thought it was good enough to buy and kind of take that box of life ambitions and go on and do other things. But I was very fortunate that it was. 
 
 Speaker 2: It was quite well received by the critics and they got some very nice reviews and the publishers asked me if I would look at doing another one. It had to be somebody whose career was eclectic and fascinating and highly varied and also was probably not really engaged in doing it, because that's what would make it interesting And Jacky had fascinated for a long time and he's also the favorite driver of the editorial director of my publisher. So that was kind of a meeting of minds. But for 30 odd years Jackie’s refused to get involved in an autobiography or a biography really because, unusually for an elite athlete he doesn't like talking about his own achievements. 
 
 Speaker 3: Is that just a personal thing with him, or is there a reason for it? I'm sure you had to interview him for the book. 
 
 Speaker 2: He's got a very well developed sense of his own importance in the world. He says because one of the genres that he's got involved in he did a lot of long distance rally rates. He did the Paridakar a number of times. He did about 30 of these kind of things And he said when you spent 24 hours driving across the Tenere Desert and you Don't see another human being, or you drive into an African village where people have nothing but would still give you everything to have, it kind of reminds you of how unimportant you are. So he's quite interesting because if you start talking to him about himself, after about 30 seconds you realize he's talking about somebody else. He's talking about the people who made it possible. 
 
 Speaker 3: Well and he's been in racing. He was very much my view of Jacky Ix was always as a sports car driver, but he was pretty well rounded because he also did a lot of open wheel stuff. He had a decent Formula One period of time as well but raced with some of the greats, even you know Derek Bell, hurley, haywood and stuff. you know some of those ultimate race car drivers that those who follow racing, those names ring true And Ix is another one of those names that'll ring true with somebody who's well rounded in racing and has been at the at the pinnacle of racing. So did he have six, six or seven Le Mans wins? 
 
 Speaker 2: Yes, six Le Mans wins. So until Tom Christensen he was the winning guy at Le Mans. until Christensen eclipsed a record in the notice. And you're right, his career as a sports car driver is almost unrivaled. His overall win tally stands up with anybody. A lot of success with Mario, of course that you know they. 
 
 Speaker 2: certainly in the 1970 72 season he had a hugely successful sports car season, sharing the works Ferrari through to please with Mario Andretti. But you're right, he's career in single seaters was highly successful. He was twice runner up in the Formula One World Championship. He was the European Formula Two champion. He actually started his career as a as a trials rider riding motorcycles And in fact one of the guys who he, who he beats twice to the Belgian national championship was Roger De Costa. You know who obviously is recent. Well, he retired at the same time as Jackie did as a multiple motocross world champion And spent a lot of time in the States. But, yeah, hugely eclectic career, a lot of time in touring cars as well, did a lot of hill climbs. raced in the States in the places like Marlborough, in touring cars as well, but obviously multiple winter at Sebring and Daytona, as well as being a multiple of all winter. 
 
 Speaker 3: And the era of racing that I truly fell in love with, which was the can am series. I saw he had quite a bit of success in that Did he win in your conversations with him. Were there any cars that were more memorable to him? that meant something different? 
 
 Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting you mentioned the can am era because obviously his era of can am was 1979, the sort of rebirth of it with the rebodied Formula 5000 cars. So he was driving for Carl Hass's team with the, the T332 Lola's that have got the chaperone prepared engines in them And he loved driving those cars because he'd come out of, he'd had a couple of barren years in Formula One And he spent some of 1979 unintentionally. He was drafted in to replace a friend's guy called Patrick Gepaier who had had a hand gliding accident. So Patrick was out of racing. Jackie was drafted into drive the Ligier Formula One cars But this was in the ground effects era and the cars were very hard suspended. 
 
 Speaker 2: A lot of the finesse that Jackie was famous for wasn't really on on showing those cars But he could in the in the can am lolas, he could still demonstrate that And he, you know he got powerful cars that were, you know, difficult to drive but he could show his. He could show his expertise And he loved driving for Carl Hass. He really enjoyed the family atmosphere that Carl and Bernie Hass had in that team. That he, he said, was very similar to the family atmosphere he had with Ken Tiro with the 1960s when he was racing for the two mattress forum. 
 
 Speaker 3: And then, you know, actually had a great relationship with some of the great names of manufacturers in motorsports. You know, i believe he drove some of the brumos Porsche products, drove Ferrari as well. 
 
 Speaker 2: He drove the brumos plus. He was a factory Porsche driver from from 1976 onwards And the you know, the legend has it that once you're a Porsche driver you're always Porsche driver. But he had, he had a very good reputation and relationship with the, the head of engineering the Porsche, Dr. Hamburg Hall. In fact, the, the Porsche 959 rally cars, came about purely at Jackie's instigation. That helmet bots have been playing around with his own road going car and they kind of bolted the, the transmission and drivetrain, off of the Audi Quattro onto the bottom of bots on 9 11. 
 
 Speaker 2: And Jackie gets basically said you know this, this thing would be a good weapon to go and tackle the Paradec, aren't we? So here and Roland Kushmaier went out and developed this thing And eventually they you know they developed it into a car that won the Paradec Rally. Not with X driving, he came second in it, but he'd already wanted driving a Mercedes G-Wagon. But his relationship with Porsche was such that he could persuade them to do all sorts of oddball things. He actually persuaded them to marineize the, the engine, out of the, the 928, the V8 turbo. So they ended up plugging that into a car called a tertiary 2-liter V8 built offshore powerboat. So we did half a dozen races in the European Class 1 offshore powerboat championship. 
 
 Speaker 3: Oh wow, I didn't realize that That's pretty wild, You know, sort of way off the table of what you know. 
 
 Speaker 2: People would normally know him for. 
 
 Speaker 3: And did he ever do a Pikes Peak? 
 
 Speaker 2: No, not to my knowledge. I Don't think he did Pytopeak. He was obviously a Ford man originally. He was very well associated with Ford. Back in the 60s In fact he was given the first Lotus Cortina that was ever imported into Europe. But he hill climbed very successfully in the early well from about 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966. 
 
 Speaker 3: And he also had Le Mans win in a Ford GT40, if I remember correctly. 
 
 Speaker 2: Absolutely right. 1969, famous win, where he had a bit of a disagreement with Jackie Stewart over the way that the campaign to improve safety in Formula One was going on. Jackie Stewart was very militant about it in many ways, and successfully. so Jackie didn't like the politicization of the way that it was Done and preferred to do things in his own individual way. So whilst he didn't subscribe to some of the methods of the safety campaign for Formula One, he really disagreed with the Le Mans start, the traditional Le Mans start where the driver would line up on one side of the road, run over to their cars, jump in and drive off, because quite often drivers were going off without seatbelts on and doors not shut properly and all sorts of problems like that. 
 
 Speaker 3: And the slowest runner was in the way. No, I'm just joking. 
 
 Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting that you say that, because in 1969, his protest was that he walked across the road and got into his car and he didn't really get collected by somebody setting off. And he set off dead last, having buckled himself into the car and make sure the door was shut before he left. And, as it happened, he ended up winning the race after a really tight finish with Hans Herman, and he won it by a couple of hundred yards. So he said he could have gone the other way. He would have looked complete full, because he would have lost his at the start. It was a positive. It was a positive, quite a celebrated thing. But he was very much seen as associated with Ford. Grady Davis of Gulf Oil had lent him his personal GT40 backing 1966 to run at Daytona And the only reason they didn't win it was because when the mechanics were prepping the car they forgot to disconnect the heated rear window off the road car. So it was a consequence it flattened the battery three times and then it'd be three new batteries. Otherwise he would have probably claimed that one as well. What is he doing today? He spends a lot of time doing historic events and you'll see him at places like Goodwood. He was at Long Beach only a few weeks ago. He will do the Le Mans Classic. It does an awful lot of bits. I think I mentioned Mario Andretti, and Robert Andretti is probably the only guy I've seen work a crowd or work the fans, as well as Jackie. I mean, he's phenomenally good with them. 
 
 Speaker 2: He doesn't you know where. A lot of promoters will say oh, you know, i wonder if you're going to do this event. I want you to sign for an hour. But you know Jackie's very much of the opinion that. Well, you know, there could be a guy who's been queuing for three hours. Or there might be a guy who's flown from Australia to see me. You know who am I to walk away when I've Done an hour. So I'll stay until the queue's gone. And there was an event at Nogaro last year which was over two days. He was signing autographs for seven hours over the two days. Oh wow, there aren't many of the current crop who would do that. 
 
 Speaker 1: No, there's not. How much time did you spend with him personally? 
 
 Speaker 2: I did about 40 hours of Zoom calls with him and three face-to-face meetings. 
 
 Speaker 2: That probably accounted for about another six, eight hours of it. A fascinating man, a very philosophical man and quite a deep thinking man as well, but, yeah, hugely invested in the people who made his career possible the designers, the mechanics, the people who used to prepare and run the cars for him, and that's who he likes to talk about. In fact, as a consequence of that, i deliberately made a point of when I was doing all the captions for the photos in the book, that if I've got a photo that's got several people in it, it will name all the people in the photo. So, for example, there's a photo from Daytona in 1972 where the Ferrari crew are refuelling the 312P And we've named every single mechanic and the Firestone Tire technician and the guy standing on the pit wall as well. And Jackie absolutely loves that because it reflects that it's not just him. He was insistent that because of the forward that he wrote for it. He was insistent that the forward was called we, not me, oh, wow. 
 
 Speaker 1: He sounds like a guy that you'd like to have living next door to you. Hey, man, can you help me out with the yard? Yeah, come on over, i'll help you. 
 
 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can get it Done in a hurry too. 
 
 Speaker 2: Absolutely. You know you Don't expect that people with his record and his success would have the degree of humility that he has. It's quite revealing really just how humble and individually is Jon how long did it take you to write the book? 
 
 Speaker 2: This one actually took me about three and a half years Because, as you might see from that, it's a big lad It weighs about six pounds and it's 606 pages 350,000 words. It was only the pandemic, really, that allowed me to get it written that quickly. When we started work on it, i told the publisher to take me five years, because the latter one took me nine. But I was doing that alongside doing a day job. It was only the pandemic that stopped me going out in the evening. That allowed me to get it written as quickly as I did. Really, what is your full-time job? Well, until the end of this month, i work in the finance industry. I work for a bank. I'm a healthcare lending specialist, so I lend people money to build medical centers and that kind of thing. I retire at the end of the month, so after 41 years of doing that, Are you going to pursue this? 
 
 Speaker 3: It's a bit more of this. 
 
 Speaker 1: Where did you learn to write at your level? Did you go to school to learn to write? 
 
 Speaker 2: It's weird. I had my A levels that I was doing when I was 16, 18. I did English language and literature. That was the last time I studied anything like that, but my job's involved writing a lot of reports And I've always been. I've always enjoyed writing And the you know the. I'm a bit of a sort of panicky person when it comes to grammar and everything And I, you know I spot things when they're not you know when they're. It leaps out off the page at you when you read something wrong in the press. But it's something that I enjoy the year. The writing is actually quite easy. The research is what's difficult And it's difficult bits. That's the fun really. But yeah, writing a thoUSAnd words a night is not too much of a challenge when you get your research right. 
 
 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. So you said he, he, he goes to Goodwood. Is he still drive, not competitively driving, but still driving at speed at some of these events? 
 
 Speaker 2: Yeah, he will. You know, he'll demonstrate things at, you know, pretty much not at full racing speed, but cracking on for that way, You know, and he, you know, he'll drive all of the machinery that he was driving in period. I mean, he's he's 78 years old And he's, he's always up for for new, new experiences and adventures. How cool is that. 
 
 Speaker 1: That's what I like to hear. Yeah, and live in life to the full. 
 
 Speaker 2: There was. There's a photo in the back of the book where it talks about his sort of life outside the cockpit. And a couple of years ago he befriended a fella called Thomas Bupendorfer, who is a he's a free climber. You know these guys who climb rock faces without any equipment and you know one finger holds and that sort of thing. And Bupendorfer asked him if he'd ever Done any climbing in jackets. No, no, i haven't. You know what? would you like to have a go? Yeah, we'll give it a go. 
 
 Speaker 2: So Bupendorfer climbed a rock face called the Tete de Chien, which is the the big open mountain that's behind Monte Carlo, and I've got a photo that's taken by Bupendorfer from the top of it, looking back down the slope, and there's Jackie three quarters of the way up it, on the end of the one rope that Bupendorfer's dragged up behind him And he's and Jackie's wearing a polo shirt and a pair of chinos and some trainers And he hasn't got gloves on and he hasn't got a helmet on, and that's about the concession to it. And he just, yeah, at 76 years of age he did that. 
 
 Speaker 1: Wow, gotta love it Me. 
 
 Speaker 2: Jon, it is a true, I think. 
 
 Speaker 1: I'll have a bit of that. Yeah, exactly, If we could only be so lucky. Jon, it's great to talk to you and thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a real pleasure and we wish you the best of successes with your book. Jackie ICKX his authorized competition history, And enjoy the nice weather while you got it. 
 
 Speaker 2: I will indeed Thanks. Thanks, Donna, making the most of it. The you know, if anybody's interested in looking up the book, they'll find it online, pretty much by typing in what you've just said, or they can have a look at the publisher site, which is froevoevocom. 
 
 Speaker 1: Beautiful. Jon, thanks again, best of luck and have a great day. And Michelle, thanks for having me on. Gentlemen, it's been a delight speaking to you. Thank you Very, very interesting, Very, very much. 
 
 Speaker 3: What a life. Mr ICKX as well, No kidding. 
 
 Speaker 1: All right, let's see. Why Don't we do something completely different? Chase and possums, have I missed something of yours that I need to get in? 
 
 Speaker 3: I think you got it all. 
 
 Speaker 1: Did we get it all in? 
 
 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. 
 
 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right? 
 
 Speaker 3: Well, I've got you. you, let us speak a little bit. 
 
 Speaker 1: You know, go wear your lawn skirt. U S Light Vehicle Sales are forecast to rise 18 to 20% in May as retail selection improves, consumer incentives rebound and automakers fill a backlog of fleet orders. Toyota division snapped a four month long losing streak. Honda Motors surged again. U S sales rose for the 10th straight month in May at Hyundai and Kia, helped by rising inventory and incentives and sharper, sharply higher fleet deliveries. Retail inventory I thought you'd like to know this stood at 1.3 million in May, up 48% from a year ago. JD Power and LMC Automotive forecast Toyota, KIA, Hond, Lexus, BMW, Subaru, Land Rover, Hyundai, Cadillac and Nissan had the industry's leanest stockpiles last month, according to Cox Automotive, while Jeep, Infiniti, Jaguar, Buick, Ram, Chrysler, Dodge, Mini, Lincoln and Audi had the highest inventory. 
 
 Speaker 1: He said Jaguar Only by mistake. The software fixes that Kia and Hyundai are distributing to help stop a nationwide crime fad and hot wiring their older vehicles may need fixes of their own. Both auto companies have notified their dealers that the software solutions are not working perfectly. According to a service bulletin sent from Kia to its dealers in February, the company identified a compatibility issue involving vehicles equipped with remote start accessories. Another bulletin issued last week said the problem has not been remedied. A spokesperson for Kia confirmed that the issue persists, but the company expects to release a new version of the software update this month that's compatible with the subset of vehicles equipped with remote start. 
 
 Speaker 3: So get your free Kia while you can. 
 
 Speaker 1: Either that or get yourself a different kind of a locking system so it doesn't get a club or something. Something, do something. I thought this was interesting. The nation's top auto safety regulator is failing to complete defect investigations and upload related documents in a timely manner, potentially limiting its ability to address rapidly evolving and severe risks to motorists. A government audit found in report released Wednesday by the U S Department of Transportation Office of Inspector General. That sounds really official. Auditors reviewed a sample of investigations conducted in 2018, 19 and 21 to determine whether the agency had adequate tools, processes and resources to probe identity uh defect safety defects. The audit was conducted between May and March. Despite efforts to restructure its office, modernize its data systems and enhance its investigative processes, nitz's office of defects investigation does not meet its internal deadlines for investigations and relies on legacy information systems that impede its ability to conduct defect analysis, according to the report. In other words, whatever they recalled, it's taken them like five years to recall it, when it should have taken them a few months Morons. 
 
 Speaker 3: It's the government Got to remember that That's the Mayor. Pete Department of Transportation. 
 
 Speaker 1: The Mayor, Pete booted boot Boot. But, But gig The record setting penalties for Stallantis 235 million for 2018 and 19, 128 million for GM. It's all about them paying millions of dollars in. US fuel economy penalties. Thought I'd. 
 
 Speaker 3: Show the government who's only going to waste it anyhow. 
 
 Speaker 1: Uh-huh, i never did tell anyone about it. 
 
 Speaker 3: Yeah, you said it. What are you trying to say? 
 
 Speaker 1: They suck. How's that? Automotive industries new normal might be characterized by lower inventory levels before the pandemic, as well as more of an emphasis on pre-selling and secure supply chains. According to a company called Cloud Theory, both inventory and sales initially plummeted when the pandemic began, but when sales recovered and even surpassed pre-pandemic levels in the ensuing months, inventory continued to drop, falling below a million by the fall of 21. Inventories climbed back toward 2 million in the last quarter of 22 in the first quarter of this year, and Rick Wainchell, cloud Theory's head of data and science analytics, does not expect the industry to get back to pre-COVID inventory levels of three to three and a half million. I had no clue that that's what was sitting on lots before the pandemic. 
 
 Speaker 3: Nope, that's way too many. You know you go to some of the dealerships around here. They'd have 800 to 1,000 vehicles on the ground. I'm not surprised. Now they have 500 and 495 of them are white. What is the deal with white trucks That's? you know, you go past some of these dealerships and it's just acres of white trucks. Well, white's the most popular color, but they look like red, blue, green and black. Are those colors not available? Well they've got colors that are called Mott Mott colors. 
 
 Speaker 1: But all the white ones. 
 
 Speaker 3: They wrap so much easier than a black one because you can, you can. You Don't necessarily have to wrap the whole thing. 
 
 Speaker 1: Oh, he's on the wrap You know, that's the point. 
 
 Speaker 3: Just a reason to buy the white ones. 
 
 Speaker 1: I mean besides fleet sales. So you go spend another $5,000 on getting it wrapped. That's right, But then a month later. 
 
 Speaker 3: If you Don't like that, you can change it again. 
 
 Speaker 1: I'll spend another $5,000. 
 
 Speaker 3: The way they paint white trucks, they Don't do it properly. That's why all the white trucks at Chevrolet peel paint Wrap it in mott. Chevrolet is the key word there. 
 
 Speaker 1: We'll, we'll, we'll be right back. Everyone at the tailpipes and tacos cruise in at the Lupe’ Tortilla TexMex in Katie. Thank you for participating in the best cruise in a round and look forward to seeing you again. You'll hear about the next cruise in date right here on Inwheel Time. Next time you're in the West Houston Energy Corridor area, be sure and stop in at the original Lupe’ Tortilla TexMex at I-10 and Highway 6, or the Katie location on the Grand Parkway at Kingsland Boulevard When passing through Beaumont or College Station. Stop in and have Lupe’'s award-winning beef fajitas and frozen margaritas. There's always a celebration at Lupe’ Tortilla. Lupe’ Tortilla founders, Stan Hold and his wife Sheila are winning racers on the NHRA Drag Racing Circuit and have a collection of hot rods and classics that everyone appreciates. Look for them at the next tailpipes and tacos cruise in. The date will be announced soon and will once again be held at the Lupe’ Tortilla TexMex on 99 in Kingsland Boulevard, just south of I-10 and Katie. We'll give you all the details right here on the In Wheel Time Car Talk Show and online Donations. Benefit God's Garage. We'll see you then. 
 
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 Speaker 1: Now it's easier than ever to hear about all things automotive all week long. You're invited to join fellow car enthusiasts in becoming part of the ever-growing In Wheel Time Car atlk family. Don't forget those 30-minute podcast episodes on your favorite podcast channel. Ha, Apparently I've missed time to everything and running a little bit behind today, Uh-oh, So sue me. Okay, That's a wrap for this week's In Wheel Time Car Talk show. When you're online, check out our Facebook page, give us a like, tell your friends about us and share a junk, if you would please. You'll get Konrad's unicorn hunting features, along with all things automotive all week long. Our chief engineers, David Ainsley. He'll be with us next week. 
 
 Speaker 1: Our marketing, advertising advisor and video technical director is we need more Jeff Dziekan, the booking agent and podcast flandreur, Mike Marrs, and, along with Mr Know-it-all, his royalty King, Konrad DeLong. I'm Don Armstrong Next week. Live from the Lone Star Street Rod Association annual event in Granbury, Texas, Saturday, June 10th, on all of our In Wheel Time Car Talk outlets Right here on the Smokin' Mirrors Network, possums included, 8 to 11 am Central. Have a great weekend and so long for now, everybody. All podcasts are available on Apple Podcast, spotify, stitcher, iheart Podcast, podcast Addict Tune In Pandora and Amazon Music. Keep listening and we'll see you soon.