Charging Beyond Gas: The Real Costs of Electric vs. Gasoline Vehicles

Comparing Fuel Costs

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome to another In-Wheel Time podcast , a 30 minute mini version of the In-Wheel Time car show that airs live every Saturday morning 8 to 11am , central Heard and seen around the world . With our clothes on , it's the In-Wheel Time car talk show . Just ahead we're going to talk to Shay Manowar about the cost of charging an EV versus the cost of fueling your gas powered vehicle . Jeff has this week's cruise ins and we'll have the stories making automotive news headlines . Today's show is sponsored by Meek of Auctions Houston at NRG Center . April 4th through the 6th . Howdy Along with Mike . Out of this world of ours . We always need more . Jeff Zeekin , I'm Don Armstrong , glad you could join us on this Saturday . It's a beautiful day in Houston , texas , and out here in Snuggieland . We're glad that you could join us .

Speaker 1 1:01

As I said , and we're also glad that Shay Manowar is joining us too , from the Anderson Economic Group . Shay , good morning .

Speaker 2 1:09

Good morning guys .

Speaker 1 1:09

How are you Well good , it's good to talk to you again . So let's talk about ICE versus EV , internal combustion engines versus electric vehicles . And there is this myth and I say that loosely this myth that EVs are for free when it comes to fueling or recharging your batteries . What ? But that is not the case , sir . I like free .

Speaker 2 1:37

I learned in my life there is nothing free , and anything that is free I try to run away from it because it eventually costs you more at the end . But I'm glad that you talked about ICE , because you also talked about nice Texas weather . In Michigan it had about three , four inches of snow , so it's back to Christmas season here .

Speaker 3 2:00

Yeah , you did , in fact , probably July . That's going to be clearing up for you , just to let you know .

Speaker 2 2:06

At that point we stopped hoping . I mean , we just wait until a couple of more months of not snowing and then go back .

Speaker 3 2:11

I grew up there . That's why I'm down here .

Speaker 2 2:15

I grew up in a warmer weather and now I'm up here , but it's still good to have . It's good to be back on the show . Yes , going back to the topic of which is cheaper to charge or fuel , we have been doing these studies for nearly two years now . We look at quarterly data , we look at EV vehicles by segments , we look at ICE vehicle by segments and we group them together and then we look at which is cheaper , which is more expensive to fuel . Just on our quarter three , last quarter of last year , it turned out that at this point of time , most of the internal combustion engine vehicles are still cheaper to fuel for most consumers compared to their EV counterparts . And we look at that based on how we classify internal combustion engines and electric vehicle cars by segments on price tags .

Speaker 1 3:16

So the price of the vehicle does kind of play a part in this . From what I'm looking at here on the rundown , the entry level vehicles are cheaper to fuel . When it comes to gasoline engines , it's also cheaper to fuel in the mid-price . Now , these include cars and crossovers , right , and so gasoline is still cheaper there , and actually the difference between the entry and the mid-level pricing of cars that have internal combustion engines is less than a dollar . And then you jump to the luxury vehicles and wow , the price of the luxury vehicles across every segment of your chart here is more expensive .

Speaker 2 4:09

Yeah , and one main factor is the type of fuel that typically goes into luxury vehicles . I mean most consumers . My understanding is they like to have premium gasoline for their premium price cars , so that plays a role . And then we also noted that accessibility to charging for luxury vehicles tend to be a little different for a typical mid-price or entry-level EV owner , for instance . We also note that most of the EV buyers who drive high-priced EV vehicles have a very subtle infrastructure to charge their vehicles either at home or they can afford to have some deadhead miles to go to a commercial charging . So these are some of the factors that play a big role in how we look at the inputs and then eventually look at how much it would cost for a typical EV driver or ICE driver to charge for at least 100 miles .

Speaker 1 5:17

I filled up my 2001 Corvette three-quarters of a tank of gas with premium fuel from Exxon , an Exxon station . So the supreme price for gallon was $4.09 for premium fuel and I bought 12.443 gallons of gas . That figures out to $51 for three-quarters of a tank of gas for me this week , the Corvette . They request that you put premium fuel in there . Yeah , so I guess I would fall into that category , but I think I'd really kind of fall into the truck category . I think I mean it was expensive , man , but I think it's probably more expensive up there , isn't it ?

Speaker 2 6:14

Yeah , I was about to say that . I mean , living in Texas does give you some liberty of some low-rate gas .

Speaker 3 6:22

Less expensive fuel , right , but that's not .

Speaker 1 6:25

It may be less expensive to what he pays up there , Right right . So the premium price of fuel up there in Detroit is so it's touching .

Speaker 2 6:36

It's going a little over four . Nowadays Depends on if you go to Costco or not . If you go to Costco , then you might get a little discount . However , we also know that the pricing does play a huge role , the gas prices , for instance . Last year at some point the gasoline price when it jumped especially in June of 2021 , it was touching four or five per gallon , even in Michigan up here and then that discouraged many of ice drivers , and then we also noted that the price to charge your EV was a little cheaper than the ice vehicle . So the gas prices do play a big role and we have been noting this every quarter . Right now , based on my understanding , the average gas price across the US is about 3.2 per gallon , but that's the standard gas , not premium .

Speaker 1 7:28

Correct . Yeah , that's close to what it is here . I think it's touching three dollars a gallon right now .

Speaker 3 7:34

Depending on where you go and the quality of the station . It could be a mom and pop that offers not the best quality grade of gasoline , I would imagine , but then you've got the exons like you go to , or the shells that have a little bit different .

Speaker 1 7:48

Well , I , just I choose to buy top tier gas , for you have to for your car for the court Right . But I mean even the , even the lower tier , that aren't even in the top tier . You know the 711 gas , Right , Actually , the 711 store has top tier . It does , it does . But you know Don's corner stop that has premium gas but it's a lot less and we don't know what it is .

Speaker 3 8:17

It's got a filter over the nozzle , so you don't think that's right .

Speaker 1 8:20

Yeah , I have to . All right , so let's let's talk about , then , the comparison with the electric vehicles , and I'm sure that you've got a similar situation up there in Detroit that we have here . I know that there are power companies , power providers here that tout the fact that you get free electricity at night . If you know , you buy their one plan to your plan right Between the hours of midnight and six o'clock in the morning . Your electricity is free , but they've got to make that up somewhere . So it's all a juggling act , you know , and I would imagine that that probably plays a price at this too , doesn't it ?

Speaker 2 9:04

Yeah and yes it does , but then the main factor is the size or the current infrastructure that we have for EV buyers in Michigan , for instance . I can speak for Michigan , I can also speak for the town where I live in , but we have been noting is that those who might be interesting in buying EV vehicles they would purchase despite what the EV , despite what the energy prices are looking , I mean just because they're interested in the vehicle , despite the price hike for many EV segments . However , for mass consumers , infrastructure is such a significant factor that goes into if they decide to buy an EV or not , and one big factor is how they can place a charging setup in their home or in an apartment where they live in . And then , once they know that there is a system in place , then the EV or our energy prices tend to play a role in consumer psyche . So we tend to read how consumers are behaving towards EV adoption and every time there is a news about how batteries play a part in EV cars , I mean it either tends to discourage them or encourage them .

Speaker 2 10:34

And recently we had a news there was a news in a Wall Street Journal that it was not the lithium battery that was causing problems for the new EV drivers . It was a small 12 volt EV not 12 volt battery that tends to fuel or tends to charge other components of the car , was causing issues for many new EV drivers . So the three big factors what we have been noticing is a infrastructure if there's good enough or not . At this point in time you will find a lot more gas stations than EV charging stations . And second , the price . Most of the EVs , as of right now , the average transaction prices are then the average price of a standard car . And the third is , yes , the overall safety that is around the EV . And then all these three big factors have been playing a role in driving down the sales for most of the EV segments in the past couple of quarters .

EV Adoption and Charging Infrastructure

Speaker 3 11:34

What do you drive ?

Speaker 2 11:36

I recently got a Toyota Grand Highlander and a Buick La Crosse . Those two cars , my wife and I , depending on who's driving , and you drive a La Crosse , I drive a La Crosse which is 3.6 . Right , those would be a cool .

Speaker 3 11:53

fair amount of headwind , good stuff . I didn't know if you had an EV or not , is what I'm thinking .

Speaker 2 11:59

So we have few folks in our office who have EVs , so we do bank on their experiences . And then if we have a snowy season in Michigan and then if you're trying to travel up north where there's any charging infrastructure placed , I would rather take my ice vehicle than the EV . And that's how it plays in the consumer psyche . I mean they would buy an EV . But many consumers who tend to buy EV also are typical affluent consumers . I mean they can't afford to have two vehicles in their household . One could be EV , one could be an ice . One can pick between which one they want to drive if they are going for a longer , longer distance drive .

Speaker 3 12:39

And they can afford the charging system for the home as well .

Speaker 2 12:42

That is a big factor because commercial charging Yep , if you look at the chart , I mean it's at times it's more expensive to charge cars at commercial boots and then we just at times we don't have them enough . And then some of the new EPA standards you probably would have noted that was recently released by the federal government . They expect that EV share of sales to go up around 30% in the US .

Speaker 3 13:12

As of right now , only eight percent of the cars that were sold in the US as a blast quarter Well , shay , do you see more charging systems going in for the public , like at a restaurant or maybe a big box store ? Because I do see those here in the Houston area , the markets that I go to weekly , some of the new constructions , there's new clinics , there's new car dealerships , there's new , whatever the case , but they're allowing for and it's part of the construction of an EV section in the parking lot , be it at the side of the building , the back of the building or wherever , but that's all being incorporated into the new builds that I see now going on here in the Houston area .

Speaker 2 13:51

That's a very good point , because we have also noted that any new construction they are considering how they can bring in the EV charging infrastructure . So we have noted some new parking structures . For instance , here in Michigan they do have some spots , for maybe a half a floor is dedicated to EV vehicles , or some big grocery stores they have . But then again , the US is such a huge , it's such a big country . And then the way the auto industry is set up . You have a franchise system and then it's based on three tier , but the adoption will look very different for an urban community such as Houston compared to a community here in Lansing or in mid-sized cities and other parts of the country . So it depends on what type of growth we are noticing in different parts of the country . Houston is a growing region compared to , let's just say , I would say , baltimore or Detroit . The growth is still there , but it's not as among us as compared to Houston .

Speaker 3 14:55

And being an energy capital of the United States and possibly the world and beyond , this is sort of a different take because of being oil drill , drill , drill and then now you've got the electrical side of it or the EV side of it , so that's kind of being incorporated . I think Houston is actually kind of leading in some respect on getting that built through the infrastructure , rather than just a typical city somewhere , maybe a smaller town , maybe a smaller town in West Texas or maybe somewhere else in the United States in the flyover country . But I see that more and more now here in Houston as well .

Speaker 2 15:32

That's a very good point , because I was in Salt Lake City a few months ago and I didn't know that the infrastructure charging infrastructure was seemed robust . But again , the average or typical household income in Salt Lake City is very different from the typical household income in a city like Detroit .

Speaker 3 15:56

On the other side of that there's also gas stations being built quite frequently . From here , from the studio A here to my house , there's probably three corners that there's new gas stations going up , and that's incredible because there's on the four corners of the street , three of them have gas stations . So they're all different brands , make sizes , some are the you walk in and buy stuff , and others are just the pumps . So that's kind of relating to it too . So there's growth on both the gas side and the EV side . Now who's going to win ? I don't know .

Speaker 2 16:28

I don't know If my take is the adoption is going to happen . It's , it's , it's a . It's a . I wouldn't say it's a new technology . It's a technology that the auto industry has been testing for a number of years . People will start embracing EVs , but then you cannot just force upon EV on any individual . That's . That's a trend we have noted in the past couple of years . As of right now , what we have noted as of last quarter sales less than half a million sales presented battery electric vehicles in the U S .

Speaker 1 17:06

I'm talking about . Do you think that that is because of the charging infrastructure ? Do you think it's the price of the vehicles or the price of interest on the loans that you have to get ? Because average price of a vehicle does $50,000 and you know , above that comes the for the most part the EV and I don't know . You know , with the way that the infrastructure is , that's an awful lot of money to pay for . Rolling the dice and seeing whether or not you like it or not .

Speaker 2 17:37

Yeah , yeah , so I'm glad that you mentioned I think all those three factors do play a role

EV Market Trends and Industry News

Speaker 2 17:44

. The price yes , average transaction price of a standard vehicle in the US is about $47,000 . It has started to come down from $48,000 or $49,000 , but the average transaction price of a new EV is still around $54,000 , $53,000 all-part . But then that's predominantly because of how Tesla has brought their prices down . Yeah , and most of the EV sales that we know are coming from Tesla . I mean Mac E and then Cadillac and Hyundai . I mean they're making , they're experiencing some growth in their sales , but it would be hard to catch up with Tesla in the next few years . That's my understanding .

Speaker 2 18:23

However , some of the new battery plants or that are being constructed across the country . It may play a factor . Let's just say if I were six years from now when those plants start to turn up all those batteries and then we will see increased lineup of EV vehicles presented by each OEM . As of right now , there are not enough EVs from legacy brands in the US , especially the big three . And then when they do , the big question is are people going to like them , enjoy them , buy them and drive them for a long period of time , so that you tend to pass it on to the next generation , which is the EV .

Speaker 1 19:07

Well , I've been a big proponent of hybrid vehicles and I see that General Motors has kind of backed up just a little bit and said oh , you know , we're not going to do away with all of the hybrids just yet . We are going to reintroduce hybrids to the mix because I think that they realize that there is a tweener that is going to really be drawn to a vehicle like a hybrid as opposed to a full EV . Shay , it's great to talk to you . Thank you very much for joining us today . Anderson Economic Group . Where can we find more information from them ?

Speaker 2 19:49

You can always visit our website . However , our CEO , patrick Anderson , he's , he's , he's preactive on on social media such as LinkedIn . He was recently quoted multiple times on on waltzy journal and other publications . But he I told him yesterday that I'm coming to your show . He told me to say hi to you guys and he wants to come back next time . We get an invitation , so you bet .

Speaker 1 20:14

Always an open door . Give us a call anytime you got some new news for us .

Speaker 2 20:18

Absolutely . Thank you so much , guys , and enjoy the nice warm weather and , if you need , we can some some ice , we're good , we'll send some warm temperatures up to where your mucklucks today your mucklucks .

Speaker 1 20:29

There you go , Shay . Thank you again , Shay Manowar with Anderson Economic Group . All right time now on the In Will Time Car Talk Show for the cruising calendar . Here we go . Jeffrey has that .

Speaker 3 20:38

All right , I do . There's one going on right now . This came in to me late this this past week , but it's going on right now . It's a cruise to Coons Park event you got to meet . They were supposed to meet at Cleveland , at the Brookshire Brothers in Cleveland , and then they drove out . They're going to meet up with the Wild Horse Mustang Club , which they're probably doing right about now , and then they're going to listen to this show .

Speaker 3 21:00

Yeah and listening to the show , and they're going to go to the Pickett House cruise , so that promises to be a good event Also today . Going on in just a few moments . It's going to start at 10 am till 5 pm . It's Get Low Houston . It's at 26 427 Peden Road in Magnolia , which is a bit of a cruise , but I see the weather outside is clearing up very nicely and again it goes to 5 pm . So tomorrow is the test and tune Again at Houston Motorsports Park . We'll keep saying that until they don't have it . It is from noon to 8 pm tomorrow and then also tomorrow from 2 pm to 5 pm . You got the Savage Sunday Exotic Car Show 2 in the Heights and it is at 1213 West 20th Street in Houston , texas . It goes from 2 to 5 pm to Monro , the Erotic .

Speaker 1 21:50

What is it again ? No , it's the Exotic Car Show . Oh , exotic , sorry , no , no , no , no Exotic .

Speaker 3 21:57

The Erotic that's Monday . Monday that's the Monday show .

Speaker 1 22:02

Great . I got some stories to tell you about making car news this week . We get our news from Automotive News . If you ever wanted to dress like a mechanic or show support for Ford Motor Company , they need it . You can get it in distress . The automaker has partnered with Apparel Company Forever 21 . I know you visit there quite frequently , don't ?

Speaker 3 22:25

you , I'm a little bit older than that .

Speaker 1 22:27

Well , I don't know . You act like a teenager many days . You can go to Forever 21 .

Speaker 3 22:33

More like maybe tomorrow .

Speaker 1 22:37

And the Erotic show . The limited edition fashion collection that Ford said reintroduces today's generation to a bygone era of quintessential Americana that saw car culture at the forefront . Notice , they said that in past tense . Yeah , yeah , yeah . Products in the 28 piece collection , available online and in stores , now range from a 1799 rhinestone graphic t-shirt and Gloria Vanderbilt jeans . If I was , you looking at me .

Speaker 3 23:08

You're looking at me . What is it ? Come on now Some of those chick jeans .

Speaker 1 23:14

You know , those tight ones that you wear . Those low riders , guinea jeans , guinea jeans with the rhinestones on them the 1799 rhinestone graphic t-shirt to 79.99 . Unisex Mustang coveralls . That's for you , Jeffrey .

Speaker 3 23:29

Shirtless coveralls .

Speaker 1 23:31

The various shirts , pants , jackets , hats and sweatshirts feature either the blue oval logo in just the right place when do you put it ? Or graphics of the Mustang Sports Car on Bronco SUVs . Forever 21 of Los Angeles has about 400 stores a nation .

Speaker 3 23:47

Why anymore ? I'll find .

Speaker 1 23:49

Jeffrey making personal visits there beginning this afternoon .

Speaker 2 23:55

Sorry , I'd make myself laugh , I just can't help it , I'll be modeling the uh the cover , all , the cover , all . We're going to cut them off and make some .

Speaker 3 24:04

And there's , there's no there's no mention of chaps . Oh Lord .

Speaker 1 24:10

You know the kind you're talking about Exactly which kind we're talking about . Oh my Lord , I just have that vision .

Speaker 3 24:23

No , I don't , I do . I do With you in some cut off cover all . We just lost 13 countries .

Speaker 1 24:35

Speaking of Ford motor company , a glut of late arriving 23 models have driven Lincoln motor company inventory , uh , to the highest levels in the industry , promoting the brand to boost incentives and use other strategies to help dealers sell down the remaining backlog . Matter of fact , I've been seeing commercials for the Lincoln navigator and , uh , good luck . Lincoln had more than four months worth of inventory at the end of February , more than any other brand outside of those owned by Stellantis . According to Cox automotive , about one third of its unsold vehicles were from the previous model year . Go buy an old car . Yeah . Company data shows that Lincoln's February growth stock of 33,000 vehicles was nearly tripled that of a year earlier .

Speaker 1 25:22

Officials spend the high levels on a confluence of factors . That's a confluence like they have on a river , yeah , including a continued normalization of supply after years of shortages . A months long stop sale on the aviator for a defective rear view camera system , coupled with a 26 day UAW strike at the Chicago plan where it's built , moo , it delayed shipments to the dealers until late in the year . A later than expected launch of the fresh and course air over software issues in early 23 also played a role . It's actually a good looking vehicle Among the deals available to Lincoln buyers . According to a gentleman named Poulos I guess it's a dealership here in Houston Well , he owns West Point Lincoln . He said 0.9% interest for 60 months on the 2023 Nautilus and the 2.9% for 60 months on 2023 aviators . Poulos , who owns West Point Lincoln in Houston , said 2023 models accounted for roughly 40% of his February sales and that he expected to be sold out of them by the end of May . Hmm , hurry on over to your local Lincoln dealer today .

Speaker 1 26:36

Just thought I'd bring that up and Ferrari was accused in a US lawsuit of failing to fix a dangerous safety defect with the brakes in some of its sports cars . Despite you issuing multiple recalls , recalls were no more than an interim corrective measure for one of the identified brake problems , leaving thousands of Ferrari drivers and unsafe vehicles . According to the proposed class action suit filed Monday in the US District Court in San Diego , california resident Ilya Netschiff not a local claims that 2010, . His 2010 Ferrari 458 Italia , which he bought in 2020 , had brake issues from the day he got it and would experience partial or total loss of braking capability . Yikes , ferrari is accused of not notifying customers of the full extent of the brake defect , which Netschiff says could only be fixed by replacing the master cylinder . Instead , the company continued to sell , or benefit from the sale of thousands of cars containing this life threatening defect , according to the complaint . So you own a Ferrari , you need to fix it . All right , it's number three , all right .

Speaker 3 27:51

That would be huh . Number three , brake . Number three , number three .

Speaker 1 27:57

Oh , okay . Well , time now for a quick break here . It's not going to be too quick , but we'll be right back on the end of time car talk show after this . Pro Am Auto Accessories has been serving Houston's auto enthusiasts since 1984 , providing world class products for sports cars , European sedans and American muscle . Pro Am is known as the place to go to find exclusive and hard to find parts of accessories . Pro Am is one of the very first distributors in the USA for brands such as Rekaro , Redline , Momo Corbo and Simpson . Located in the heart of Houston's premier retail and service corridor , the Galleria area , Pro Am's walk in storefront includes an 8,000 square foot warehouse , showroom and installation base . Pro Am not only sells parts and accessories , but also offers installation and service . Pro Am is now reaching a worldwide audience through Pro Amcom , taking its local reputation to the rest of the world . At Pro Am Auto , you'll be dealing with a small group of professionals who truly want to help you with your automotive needs . If you don't see what you're looking for on the website , call and Pro Am will lend you a hand . Pro Am Auto 6125 Richmond at Green Ridge and Houston's Galleria area . Call them at 713-781-7755 .

Speaker 1 29:06

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Speaker 4 30:05

Meekum Auctions , the world's largest collector car auction company , returns to Houston , texas , april 4th through the 6th at NRG Center , featuring 1000 muscle cars , corvettes , trucks , customs and more , broadcast on Motor Trend TV and streaming live on Macs from avid collectors to those new to the Meekum experience . We welcome everyone registered now at Meekumcom .

Speaker 1 30:34

Hey , I wanted to remind everybody that coming up in just a couple of minutes , we're going to have John Cramer from Meekum Auction , Houston , and he'll be talking about the big event coming your way in a couple of weeks actually less than two weeks and it's always great to talk to him because he has insight on automotive that we don't get from anywhere else . But we're going to talk to him after another quick break . Stay with us . The original group of loopy tortilla restaurants will have you telling your family and friends just what the original recipes mean when it comes to the best fajitas in southeast Texas . Founder Stan Holt invites you to visit the original loopy tortilla near I-10 at highway 6 . Here's the original house that inspired the design of all the rest and the original charm that helped make loopy tortilla the go-to destination for Houston Tex-Mex . Speaking of original , nothing can compete with the original lime pepper marinade that everyone will agree makes loopy tortilla award-winning beef fajitas the best anywhere . Loopy tortilla Katie is another location that gives you the same quality and service Houstonians have come to expect at loopies . It's located just off I-10 in the Grand Parkway . At Kingsland Boulevard in Katie , Find yourself an Aggie land . Head to the loopy tortilla college station , located just around the corner from Kyle Field . It's a great place to enjoy this famous frozen margaritas before or after the game . Head to East Louisiana . Stop in at the loopy tortilla in Beaumont . It twos on I-10 , you can't miss it . The original group of loopy tortilla restaurants invites you in for the best Tex-Mex .

Speaker 1 31:56

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Speaker 1 32:56

That's it for this podcast episode of the In Wheel Time car show . I'm Don Armstrong , inviting you to join us for our live show every Saturday morning 8 to 11 am . Central on Facebook , YouTube Twitch and our InWheelTimecom website . Podcasts are available on Apple Podcasts , Spotify Stitcher , I Heart Podcast Podcast Addict Tune In Pandora and Amazon Music . Keep listening and we'll see you soon .